NAZI MAINE: House gives final OK to smoking ban in bars PUKES ONE AND ALL!

boston.com ^ | 6/3/2003 | Glenn Adams

[Conspiracy Guy]

Sounds like he needs to quit. I don't see cigarettes jumping in his mouth and lighting themselves.

[Leisler]

VRWC_minion at work.

[Pagey]

Hmph, so Maine is turning into the Socialist state that California is, eh? Well, let me tell you how it works.First off: people will go outside to smoke for a while, then they'll get tired of having to go outside and not patronize the bar anymore,they'll drink at home,while the bartender loses his tips, his job and your favorite bar closes. This is what happened here in L.A. to bars that didn't have outside seating, which have made a remarkable comeback in the last 3-4 years,(Bar-Owners have finally exploited the outside views) and thank god for that.How are you going to solve this problem,Maine,Hmmmm?

[kmiller1k]

K

Can't smoke in the Supreme Court, the Congress or in a public school, almost all movie theaters, almost all of California (the ONLY thing I brag about in my state), etc. Can't even smoke outside near a doorway where the smoke may drift back into the building. Just a few examples of limited rights for the betterment of all.

But not once have I called you a name or sent you on your way, Kevao. Does nicotine do something to the brain that limits the ability to frame an arguement?

[kmiller1k]

Nicotine is a more powerful addiction than most street drugs. He is hooked, but like a few smokers, he is respectful of where and when he lights up. If only most smokers had his attitude the smoking bans wouldln't be needed. But, alas, that is not the case.

[Conspiracy Guy]

I know people who walk away from em everyday. My father quit 22 years ago after smoking for over 20 years because he thought the price was too high. My mom quite 3 years ago after 60 years of smoking for the same reason. You are claiming your father is a victim (very Dimocrat) and then proclaiming all smokers to be inconsiderate (Also a Dim tactic). Well you are not paying attention. How many places can smokers smoke in your city? Are you even old enough to go to a bar? Don't answer because I don't care. If you are not a troll you missed you calling.

[Conspiracy Guy]

My father had smoked over 30 not 20 years.

[kevao]

But not once have I called you a name or sent you on your way, Kevao. Does nicotine do something to the brain that limits the ability to frame an arguement?

Read your post again, meine freund. I believe you said that smokers (not just some smokers, mind you) are rude. I am a smoker.

As for the argument, we're discussing smoking bans and private property rights. I have no problem banning smoking in public places like train stations or airports; if someone needs to catch a train or plane, he must go to these places. However, I do have a problem banning smoking in private establishments like restaurants or bars. You do not have to come to my restaurant or bar if I allow smoking; you can go to a non-smoking establishment.

[VRWC_minion]

I'm not even sure what minion's point is anymore. As best I can tell, minion is saying that the government can trample private property rights when it comes to smoking bans because the military bans smoking in boot camp.

No, my point is that the smokers freedom to smoke anywhere and anyplace is being quickly eliminated and unless they do a major makeover there is nothing at all that will stop the bans.

[CSM]

"It is so frustrating to read this thread. The smokers just don't get it: Their insistence on smoking anywhere anytime is the problem. Rude behavior is now being legislated because common courtesy cannot be found."

You non smokers do not get it. When a smoker is being demonized and called the cause of all sicknesses, being restricted from smoking in all places, when no middle ground is allowed for by you anti's, when someone walking down the street is accosted for smoking a cig, when someone standing outside is verbally abused for smoking, then their POLITENESS GOES OUT THE WINDOW.....The cause of the rudeness you see today is the total disregard for the smoker's rights combined with the fact that now anti smokers feel it is their duty to lecture, berate, accost, slap, demand and whine to get their way with the smokers. Now smokers are adapting the same attitude and YOU DON'T LIKE IT.

What is next? Let's see, the anti's posting here do not show the comprehensive ability to think logically and will probably raise kids that have the me, me, me attitude (reflections of themselves). Therefore since the logical thinking deficiency exists we better legislate that these people can not have children. To enforce this you must get liscensed by the state, tests are available at any of your local hospitals for a small fee of $1,000. You can renew this kid liscense every year for $1,000. In the meantime, you are not allowed to take your children anywhere except to approved kid facilities (daycare, school, home....That's it.)

Similarities?
Lifestyle choice - Both a smoker and a parent chooses it!
Cost to society - As a non parent I pay well over my fair share of taxes to supplement the parent's budget for providing for the children they chose to have. Add to that that I pay about $1,000 extra taxes by smoking.

[Just another Joe]

If only most smokers had his attitude the smoking bans wouldln't be needed.

IMO, this is bull.
The anti-smokers agenda, if they were truthful, is about control, not about smoke.

Some people may actually care about my health if I smoke but most could care less.
Anything that is said by an anti-smoker about ETS will be nothing but a pack of lies.
Any study that they can trot out has either been debunked or I can trot a study out that says different.

[CSM]

Then it happened sometime between '80 and '89.
I went through in '80 and it was allowed during normal break times.


Not sure when it happened, I just know at Ft. Jackson it wasn't allowed in Basic. They did still use the phrase "smoke em if you got em", it just meant to take a break. Of course we had no free time like the minion thinks exists. The cigs were still very cheap and smoking was very common. As I said before, I started smoking in the Army, and have enjoyed it ever since.

[VRWC_minion]

Here is the objective:

The objective is to establish a safe, healthy, and "tobacco/ smoke free" environment for all personnel.

What part of "tobacco smoke/free" environment don't you understand ?

[kevao]

No, my point is that the smokers freedom to smoke anywhere and anyplace is being quickly eliminated and unless they do a major makeover there is nothing at all that will stop the bans.

Gee, and all this time I thought my rights were guaranteed under the Constitution, and not dependent on my doing "a major makeover." I guess I missed that in civics class.

[CSM]

The next thing they will do is enact a policy that ensures the safety of our military personnel by making it a "bullet" free zone. That should eliminate all risks to their health.

[Conspiracy Guy]

Earlier I said, "Why are we debating this with the same Smoke Nazis with their same Smoke Nazi Propaganda. Let's chat among ourselves and ignore them. Let's show them that they are right about smokers "We are rude and don't care what they think. Because frankly none of these control freak the government should ban everything A..holes are worth replying to." Flurry 6/4/3

Don't you agree?

[kmiller1k]

Like Kevao, more name calling on the part of a smoker. Stand up and make an arguement.

Yes, I am old enough to enter a bar, fyi. And in California I am happy to meet for drinks because there is no smoking allowed.

My dad did walk away from the cigs this past year for a few months after his 5-way heart by-pass surgery. He used Zyban and then the patch to stay off, but he just succombed to the nicotine and is back to his pack a day habit. My youngest sister is having a rough time with his smoking because the heart disease was related to the smoking as well as the lengthy recovery because his lungs were impaired by the smoking. I have decided to love him the way he is smoking and all. Nothing I say (nag) can make him quit so why try and fight the nicotine. He is respectful of the air I breathe (as well as my sons') and makes his choice to smoke accordingly.

[CSM]

I do on principle, the problem is that I get so angry about this issue and can't keep from answering their support of individual rights being taken from US citizens. I think I will go have a smoke......

Have a good night.

What state do you and shelion live in? Just thinking we could start a movement to reverse this trend.

[kmiller1k]

Joe

Follow the money. How much more do you pay for life insurance, car insurance etc because you smoke?

The insurance companies have the empirical data regarding the effects of smoking on the body.

[kevao]

Like Kevao, more name calling on the part of a smoker.

Exactly what name did I call you, by the way?