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Forget WMDs - they're not the real reason we went to war
scotlandonsunday.com ^ | Sun 18 May 2003 | Brian McNair

Posted on 05/18/2003 9:25:12 AM PDT by kaylar

THE sound of chickens coming home to roost fills the air, as the government seeks to counter accusations that the failure thus far to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq negates the legitimacy of the war it has just fought there.

Despite the fact that many of those making the loudest noises in this regard would not have supported war on any grounds short of Saddam Hussein setting off a nuke in central London, and could probably have been sidelined by a government still basking in the warm glow of victory, senior ministers went on the propaganda offensive last week, only to emerge from several media encounters looking both patronising and ill-briefed.

On Thursday’s Today programme, John Reid insulted the nation’s intelligence by citing the precedent of the missing millions from the Great Train Robbery. The money was never found, but the crime still happened, he pointed out, and Ronnie Biggs was still guilty as hell. Reid also stressed the difficulty of finding anything, be it a dictator on the run or a chemical weapons dump, in a country the size of France. Look at Northern Ireland, he suggested, where IRA weapons caches had eluded detection for nigh on 30 years. They hadn’t, actually - as was quickly pointed out in the press coverage which followed Reid’s lazy, arrogant performance.

Such clutching at straws reflects the difficulty the government now finds itself in, having alleged the existence in Iraq of chemical and biological weapons, primed for action within 45 minutes according to the Prime Minister himself, as a key plank in its case for war. As invasion approached, Tony Blair recognised the fragility of the WMD case and put more emphasis on the moral arguments against Saddam (his penchant for genocide by poison gas, beheading women, ripping out tongues - that sort of thing).

The coming conflict would be a war of liberation, and not merely a police operation to punish a rogue state in breach of its disarmament obligations. But in hanging so much of its credibility on the alarming threat posed by Saddam’s chemical, biological and perhaps even nuclear weapons, the government left a hostage to fortune behind when it went boldly to war.

Now, weapons of mass destruction may yet be found in Iraq. No one doubts that they were a feature of Saddam’s rule, as was their use against Iranian troops, Kurdish rebels and Iraqi civilians at various times. And it wouldn’t be that difficult to hide a few thousand litres of this or that, even some delivery systems, in a country which is, as they keep telling us, as big as France (although we’re now also being told it’s as big as California, which sounds even more daunting).

But if in the end no weapons are found, does it undermine the case for war?

Only if you believe the official line that their existence was the main reason why war happened. A few weeks before the conflict began, I argued in this space that neither the elimination of weapons of mass destruction nor the defence of human rights, while worthwhile aims, were sufficiently urgent in themselves to explain Operation Iraqi Freedom. By continuing to insist that they were, Blair and his ministers had left a gaping hole at the heart of the pro-war argument, and the millions who marched against it were filling that vacuum with some very reasonable objections.

If WMDs were all it was about, why on earth not give the inspectors more time before plunging the Middle East, and maybe the world, into chaos? We weren’t proposing to invade North Korea, after all, which had a much more developed WMD capability than Iraq, and an even more bonkers regime threatening to use them.

WMDs, of course, were never what it was about, not really. Saddam’s crimes, and his reluctance to meet the terms of his surrender in 1991, provided ample justification for war, but hardly explained its timing, and the willingness of Bush and Blair to ride roughshod over the opposition of allies such as France and Russia.

To make sense of that, you had to start from the horror of September 11. After this era-defining event, the removal of Saddam had become a pressing strategic necessity in the wider war on Islamic fundamentalist terrorism, which yesterday claimed dozens more innocent lives in Casablanca. Tolerated for 12 years after the end of the first Gulf conflict, with only sanctions and the occasional bombing mission to remind him that he was still an international pariah, Saddam’s removal had become expedient, as well as legitimate.

In a post-September 11 environment, the West needs to lessen its dependence on Saudi oil, and on the corrupt and deeply unpopular Saudi rulers. If post-Saddam Iraq could act as a beacon for human rights and democratic government in the Middle East, so much the better. But that would be a bonus next to the main prize - the establishment of a strategic bridgehead in the fight against al-Qaeda.

The importance of that bridgehead is already evident. Last week’s bombs in Riyadh signal a major escalation of al-Qaeda’s war, not only against America and Britain, but against the House of Saud itself. The country which gave birth to Osama bin Laden and 15 of the September 11 hi-jackers, and which remains a key source of financial and political support for Islamic terrorism throughout the world, is now the target of that terrorism.

Saudi Arabia, with its super-rich elite and its increasingly agitated ‘Arab street’ demanding a greater share of the oil spoils, could well fall to a Taliban-style regime in the future, at which point the value of a pro-Western Iraq (or an Iraq, at least, which is less anti-West than Saddam’s) will become all too clear.

Having failed to outline this strategic logic from the start, however, the mysterious case of the missing weapons continues to present a problem for the government. Jack Straw sought to draw a line under the issue by suggesting in a BBC interview that the discovery of WMDs was "not crucially important" next to the authority given by Resolution 1441 for intervention. Blair has pointed to the discovery of the graves of thousands of Saddam’s victims as proof that this was indeed a just war. And there are myriad other reasons why, despite the anarchy and chaos of the immediate post-conflict period, the Iraqi people are much better off now than they were before the fall of Saddam’s regime.

But events in Riyadh and Casablanca bring the bigger picture into renewed focus. Al-Qaeda is a real threat, even if Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction weren’t. The sooner our government makes explicit the connection between what has happened in Iraq and what might happen down the road in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere, the better.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bushdoctrineunfold; iraq; iraqifreedom; warlist; whywefight; wmd
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To: Drew68
"The President never lied to me about WMDs. As far as I am concerned, it was more of a wink and a nod. "
---

Bush didn't lie. PERIOD. There were WMD, just because we haven't found them, does NOT negate all previous evidence.
===

This is from Clinton's speech in February 1998.
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/17/transcripts/clinton.iraq/


In 1995, Hussein Kamal, Saddam's son-in-law, and the chief organizer of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program, defected to Jordan. He revealed that Iraq was continuing to conceal weapons and missiles and the capacity to build many more.

Then and only then did Iraq admit to developing numbers of weapons in significant quantities and weapon stocks. Previously, it had vehemently denied the very thing it just simply admitted once Saddam Hussein's son-in-law defected to Jordan and told the truth. Now listen to this, what did it admit?

It admitted, among other things, an offensive biological warfare capability notably 5,000 gallons of botulinum, which causes botulism; 2,000 gallons of anthrax; 25 biological-filled Scud warheads; and 157 aerial bombs.

And I might say UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq has actually greatly understated its production.

Despite Iraq's deceptions, UNSCOM has nevertheless done a remarkable job. Its inspectors the eyes and ears of the civilized world have uncovered and destroyed more weapons of mass destruction capacity than was destroyed during the Gulf War.

This includes nearly 40,000 chemical weapons, more than 100,000 gallons of chemical weapons agents, 48 operational missiles, 30 warheads specifically fitted for chemical and biological weapons, and a massive biological weapons facility at Al Hakam equipped to produce anthrax and other deadly agents. "

===

Does anyone really believe that all Iraq's WMD were destroyed? If they had been he wouldn't have chased out the inspectors, would he?
21 posted on 05/18/2003 10:23:02 AM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: kaylar
Give me a break! I had had many discussions with pro--freeper freepers before the war who *always* highlighted WMD as the main justiificaiton for going to war. I guess being a pro-war freepers means never having to admit that you were wrong.

22 posted on 05/18/2003 10:25:28 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: mewzilla
Get with the program! You aren't properly learning freeper newspeak: "WMD was never the real reason for going to war. It was (fill in the blank)." You need to work harder on trying to rationalize and forget the past. Get with the program!
23 posted on 05/18/2003 10:27:50 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Austin Willard Wright
"Saddam Hussein's Iraq reminds us of what we learned in the 20th century and warns us of what we must know about the 21st. In this century, we learned through harsh experience that the only answer to aggression and illegal behavior is firmness, determination, and when necessary action.

In the next century, the community of nations may see more and more the very kind of threat Iraq poses now a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction ready to use them or provide them to terrorists, drug traffickers or organized criminals who travel the world among us unnoticed.

If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow by the knowledge that they can act with impunity, even in the face of a clear message from the United Nations Security Council and clear evidence of a weapons of mass destruction program. "

---- From Bill Clinton's speech on Feb. 17, 1998 http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/17/transcripts/clinton.iraq/

24 posted on 05/18/2003 10:34:18 AM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: FairOpinion
Bush didn't lie. PERIOD. There were WMD, just because we haven't found them, does NOT negate all previous evidence.

I have no doubt that you are probably right and finding them would certainly be the icing on the cake, but it was never about WMDs. It was about fighting terrorism by deposing a little man with a big army and placing the geographical center of the Middle East under the control of the American military.

Bush knows this, I know this and the majority of Americans know this. The whole WMD issue was just a selling point to the rest of the world and to the nitwits here at home.

Bush couldn't have said, "We are going to annex Iraq in order to place a huge military in the region to better crush future tererorist organizations." He'd have looked like Hitler.

As it is, half the world thinks he is Hitler reincarnated and if WMDs are found, these people will believe they were planted. But the American majority supports what was done in Iraq and I support it as well and this is all that matters to me.

25 posted on 05/18/2003 10:37:04 AM PDT by Drew68
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To: FairOpinion
Bill Clinton is scum. You seen to citing him as a credible source....but that carries no weight with me.
26 posted on 05/18/2003 10:37:11 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Austin Willard Wright
There's simply no way to generalize about what freepers do and do not think, about the WOT, Iraq, or anything under the sun.There are-what, 100,000 registered site users here? And of them, say maybe 25% post fairly frequently. There may be some who ONLY cared about WMD, but I have seen quite a few posters who're more interested in the longterm war against Islamic fundamentalist terrorism, and the belief of some Muslim fanatics that they are entitled-no, required-to force their religion and sharia law onto the entire world. These posters said from the get-go that if WMD were found in Iraq-great. That'll shut up our erstwhile allies at the UN. But if they weren't found , the main thing was to show the terrorist organisations that the west would no longer allow them to rampage with impunity, as was the case during the WJC administration, when the US looked weak due to the lack of retaliation after being attacked. That's what gave OBL the idea that he could attack the WTC, and the US would do nothing in response.
27 posted on 05/18/2003 10:38:19 AM PDT by kaylar
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To: Drew68
Never about WMD!? Not on Free Republic. Every time I dared to question the war before we went in, WMD was always the leading pro-argument used against me. Nothing else even came close.
28 posted on 05/18/2003 10:39:08 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: kaylar
Don't put words in my mouth. I said the WMD was the main pro-war Freeper argument. Usually, other secondary arguments (such as Clintonian humanitarian intervention) were presented. Now....there might have been a few freepers who didn't stress WMD as the main justification but they were a minority.
29 posted on 05/18/2003 10:41:22 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Drew68
That's "pro-war argument"
30 posted on 05/18/2003 10:41:54 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Austin Willard Wright
Our memories are so convenient, aren't they? The truth is, there was always a bigger geopolitical reason for this war than WMD. Nonetheless, WMD was used as a key selling point by the administration. (Remember Colin Powell's presentation to the UN?)

That's what seemed to be the most effective selling point at the time. If, WMD was a major problem in Iraq, there is already much evidence to prove it so. Perhaps we haven't heard it. But I find it doubtful we wouldn't have seen much more by now.

Let's face it. We were probably all duped to a degree to achieve a greater goal. When the stakes are high, political leaders have been known to do such things.
31 posted on 05/18/2003 10:42:52 AM PDT by Paraclete
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To: Paraclete
Duped? Thanks for noting this. Bush was only following in Clinton's footsteps, of course. Back in 1998, Clinton claimed that 100,000 Kosovars had been killed and that Milosovic was "another Hitler." At the time, freepers were properly skeptical.

32 posted on 05/18/2003 10:45:44 AM PDT by Austin Willard Wright
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To: Austin Willard Wright
My point was that we and everyone has known for years, it's FACT that Iraq had WMD. Just because we haven't found them, doesn't "prove" he didn't have them.

As I said in another post, I think there were a number of very good reasons for going into Iraq, WMD was one, Saddam's support of terrorists was another and to keep the ME from being controlled by either Saddam and/or Muslim extreminsts, who could and would blackmail the world, was yet another very good reason.
33 posted on 05/18/2003 10:45:52 AM PDT by FairOpinion
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To: Paraclete
. . . and also, let's not forget that the forum for the argument dictated much of the argument -- the UN and weapons inspections. If Cheney would have had his way, we would have gone in, done our thing and the reasons would have been framed differently in all likelihood.
34 posted on 05/18/2003 10:46:18 AM PDT by Paraclete
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To: Drew68
it was never about WMDs. It was about fighting terrorism by deposing a little man with a big army and placing the geographical center of the Middle East under the control of the American military. Bush knows this, I know this and the majority of Americans know this. The whole WMD issue was just a selling point to the rest of the world

Agreed...and you're right about this:

if WMDs are found, these people will believe they were planted

They were saying that any WMD found would've been planted before we even went into Iraq! Well...maybe 'hinting broadly' is a more accurate way to put it, but anyway....any WMD found will be scoffed off, that's true.

The main thing is this : Terrorists have been saying for a decade or more that the US is decadent and weak, and Americans can be killed with impunity. After Afghanistan and Iraq, that recruiting point is getting harder to believe.

(One freeper suggested that all France's actions this week-claiming that it's the victim of US media "lies"-suggest a move out of WJC's playbook. They expect us to find something big in Iraq, and soon, with French fingerprints all over it. They are trying to attack our credibility now to make the discovery suspicious. Be interesting to see if that prediction proves accurate.)

35 posted on 05/18/2003 10:46:39 AM PDT by kaylar
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To: kaylar
why did we go to war?

a/ wmd
b/ human rights
c/ freedom
d/ terroism
e/ other

36 posted on 05/18/2003 10:46:42 AM PDT by Bill Davis FR
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To: kaylar
After this era-defining event, the removal of Saddam had become a pressing
strategic necessity in the wider war on Islamic fundamentalist terrorism, which
yesterday claimed dozens more innocent lives in Casablanca.


Works for me.
Anyone who drinks from the same cup as Osama...is a reasonable target.

Call me extreme, but when I heard Tony Blair asking if anyone doubts that if they
could have killed 10 times as many people on 9-11 that the terrorists would have...
that was my second wake-up call.

Besides, a Wall Street Journal article that ran a week or so after 9-11
(sorry, I can't give a citation...but it gets reposted here occassionally)
had a LOT of connections that the world press had been making between Saddam/Iraq and
Osama in the years leading up to 9-11...such as Osama's major gripes when he
called for Jihad in the late 1990's...all the points were about the "oppression"
of Iraq.
And Iraq was THE ONLY Arab state (out of 22? or 23?) that didn't issue a statement
of condolence soon after 9-11.

The rat-b@$tards that drink from the cup of Osama, Saddam and other monsters...
death to them all if possible.
And the sooner, the better.
37 posted on 05/18/2003 10:49:08 AM PDT by VOA
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To: kaylar; knighthawk
If post-Saddam Iraq could act as a beacon for human rights and democratic government
in the Middle East, so much the better.


IIRC, last night NBC Nightly News (for Saturday) showed the re-convening of classes
at Baghdad University...for the first time since Saddam went missing.

One professor was lecturing his class and saying that Sharon of Israel was a better
leading of his country than Saddam was of Iraq (becuase at least Sharon didn't
slaughter his citizens).
I about fainted on that one.

And then it showed some sort of convocation of educators in Iraq VOTING BY BALLOT for
new administrators of Iraq's education system; the head man chosen was a chemist
who trained in the USA, a lesser officer voted in was a Christian Iraqi.

The smiles on the faces of these guys as they pushed the first freely-cast ballots of
their lives in Iraq...
PRICELESS!
38 posted on 05/18/2003 10:54:18 AM PDT by VOA
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To: Austin Willard Wright
Now....there might have been a few freepers who didn't stress WMD as the main justification but they were a minority.

Most of us were just happy that the President was finally going to crush Saddam and occupy Iraq and did not care about WMDs because we knew that it was nothing more than a causus belli, and if the President wanted to sell the threat of WMDs to the world, we were fine with that. We did (and continue to) support military action without neccessarily buying the reason.

To argue this on a public forum would have given ammo to our enemies and it wasn't really neccessary, so we smiled, nodded along and kept quiet. We weren't being complacent, we were just giving approval by refraining from arguing.

Go ask the average man on the street why we went to war in Iraq and he will say WMDs. That man, in his heart, could not care less about WMDs and just wanted to see us flex our muscles in that region to prevent another 9/11 --which the average man on the street is still pissed about!

39 posted on 05/18/2003 10:54:57 AM PDT by Drew68
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To: Bill Davis FR
f/national sovereignty . We could not allow the impression to be given that the UN and not our Constitution, laws, government , etc, is the final arbiter of when the US uses its military .
40 posted on 05/18/2003 10:55:27 AM PDT by kaylar
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