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Anti-Chavez protesters tortured - murdered
The Guardian ^ | February 20, 2003 | Owain Johnson in Caracas

Posted on 02/20/2003 11:48:56 PM PST by Cincinatus' Wife

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To: William McKinley
We gonna have to fix this soon.
21 posted on 02/21/2003 4:28:41 AM PST by AppyPappy (Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.)
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To: William McKinley; AppyPappy
FARC - Chavez buddies:

U.S. Lawmakers Threaten Rebel Retaliation *** BOGOTA, Colombia - Leftist rebels accused by the United States of seizing three Americans have made a "very grave error" and can expect a U.S. response, an American congressman said Thursday. The Americans apparently were captured by the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, after their U.S. government plane crashed in rebel territory Feb. 13, U.S. officials have said. They were on an intelligence-gathering mission. The rebels executed a fourth American and Colombian soldier who were also aboard, Colombia's army chief has said.

"I don't think there's any question that this precipitous action by the FARC is going to meet with very strong retaliation," said Rep. Tom Davis, D-Va., a member of a visiting Congressional delegation. "Precisely what happens is being discussed as we speak, but they've made a very grave error."

The State Department declined to say what steps could be taken. "Any questions on the response to the hostage scenario cannot be addressed at this time until the whereabouts of missing crew members is ascertained," said Department spokesman Lou Fintor. ***

22 posted on 02/21/2003 4:30:38 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: AppyPappy; Paul Ross
I asked this yesterday of someone else- fix it how? The answer I got then was that we give Venezuela the full-blown Afghanistan treatment.

I know that I would support that, but looking out over the landscape, I can't imagine that the public at large would support it, and I am certain that the Marxist-loving Democrats in Congress would oppose it.

So how can we build up support for that kind of action? Or what other actions can and should the US be taking?

23 posted on 02/21/2003 4:31:40 AM PST by William McKinley (You're so vain, you probably think this tagline's about you)
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To: fella

Notice the sign on the right. lol

24 posted on 02/21/2003 4:33:36 AM PST by William McKinley (You're so vain, you probably think this tagline's about you)
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To: William McKinley
You throw the SOB out. By any means necessary. You don't want this kind of nonsense in a neighbor who is shot in the butt with oil.
25 posted on 02/21/2003 5:03:49 AM PST by AppyPappy (Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Ah yes... You can always count on Latin American governments to return to their default setting... torture and killing.
26 posted on 02/21/2003 5:06:58 AM PST by Tijeras_Slim (There's a difference between an accident and stupidity.)
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To: Tijeras_Slim
"These people should have been jailed a long time ago," Chavez said grinning widely as he recounted hearing about the arrest. "At one in the morning I sent for the sweet cooked papaya from my mother, to savor it, because it's not about hate, but justice." Source


Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, right, speaks with Vice President Jose Vicente Rangel during a ceremony to relocate the remains of former Dictator Cipriano Castro to the national pantheon in Caracas, Venezuela, Friday, Feb. 14, 2003. (AP Photo/Francisco Batista, Miraflores, HO)

27 posted on 02/21/2003 5:26:40 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife; Howlin; JohnHuang2; Poohbah
Time to take Carlos Castano off our bad list, perhaps?
28 posted on 02/21/2003 6:19:25 AM PST by hchutch ("Last suckers crossed, Syndicate shot'em up" - Ice-T, "I'm Your Pusher")
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To: hchutch
Colombia - Right-wing paramilitaries threaten to take up arms following two-month cease-fire.
29 posted on 02/21/2003 6:25:45 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Witnesses told police that the group was kidnapped near the Plaza in the early hours of Sunday morning. Armed men reportedly forced them into two cars and drove away.

A side lesson...when armed men try to force you to enter their cars, REFUSE. Better to be shot in the street with a chance at immediate medical care, than to be bound and gagged, tortured, and shot dead with no hope of assistance.

30 posted on 02/21/2003 6:29:52 AM PST by ez (WHERE'S THE POLLING DATA ON THE ESTRADA FILIBUSTER???)
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To: ez
A side lesson...

Bump.

31 posted on 02/21/2003 6:31:29 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: William McKinley; Jeff Head; belmont_mark; Alamo-Girl; buffyt; rightwing2
So how can we build up support for that kind of action? Or what other actions can and should the US be taking?

Step One. Stop ignoring the problem. (a)The Administration, preferrably via Colin Powell, should be escalating Venezuela to the top of the list as a human rights violator. (b)And George Tenet, much as I fervently believe he needs to be sacked, if left in place (presumably because he provides bipartisan cover--which is dubious), must do the heavy lifting of publicizing a lot of the adverse intel about the situation. He must be made to testify in Congress and the Seante before congressman and senators who loudly demand: 'Who Lost Venezuela??!' He must then participate in Heritage foundation & AEI seminars, and hold press conferences from one end of the country to the other reporting the 'hostile, inimical, war-fomenting covert actions of the Venezuelan junta.'

Step Two. All governmental relations to Venezuela must be systemmatically re-evaluated and revised accordingly with recognition that a regime change is in order. Chavez, after arbitrarily cancelling the constitution cannot claim the virtue of his elected status...and we should never accord him that status. (I.e., we should pull a democRAT-type 'dis' on him). He needs to be instantly made into a Castro-grade pariah.

Step Three. Clean our own house. The State Dept. needs to seriously reorient its South American attitudes, and hawks elevated within the policy ranks. The profoundly tyrannical and anti-democratic conspiracy that Chavez and his junta represents needs to be publicized by the Administration.

Step Four. Elevate the priority, to minimize the level of blood-shed ultimately risked in this conflict. GWB can stop hoping Chavez's junta is going to be easily deposed by the Venezuelan people. The progressive Sovietization is happening before our eyes.

Step Five. Steel the Public against the Marxist/Anti-American-Dominated Media for the necessity to rescue a fellow democracy from the anti-constitutional putsch of a socialist fascist. Remember, we ALSO needed foreign assistance to successfully rebel against King George III. Just like Hitler before Chavez, it will take a major rescue operation by the West to save these poor folks from Socialist Fascism. We'll need some tough-talk rhetoric, ideally from Donald Rumsfeld. And then we need a major reiteration of the principal points of the Bush Doctrine, with an elaboration reinforcing the Monroe Doctrine. We need to draw a line in the sand. No more Cubas. Period.

Step Six. Revise the role of China in the hemisphere. No Chinese interference in this hemisphere will be brooked. We need to tell them after pointing to the clear improprieties of their backing the putsch, 'Get out. Now.'

Step Seven. Then, the coup-de-grace. Link it to the war on terror in a Presidential prime-time speech to the nation. The darkest human intelligence of the conspiracy network must be revealed. The million-dollars-plus financial aid (misappropriated Venezuelan state monies) shipped to Al-Quaeda by Chavez, flagrantly and spontaneously POST 9-11, plus the importation of a number of arab Islamicist jihadists into his country (offering them both safe haven, and a launching pad for terrorist activity in the Western hemisphere) needs to be condemned in the strongest possible terms. The provocative saber-rattling revolutionary 'war' rhetoric of Chavez needs to be publicly rebuked by GWB himself. He should demand a complete disavowal, retraction, and hand-over of the terrorists in his midst, plus a return to the actual lawful constitution of Venezuela...or the war on terror comes to Venezuela. GWB should also pledge, that if we need to, we will assure the peoples of Venezuela all the tools for, ending the hunta, restoration of their Constitutional democratic freedoms and the rule of law.

The actions of Chavez are prima facie causus belli. They go way beyond merely unfriendly acts. They are acts of war. And they need to be expressly and openly classified as such. Chavez must be made a high-profile target. We didn't start this war, they did. Hence, Venezuela's dictator is not a politically difficult target. I would argue that a liberation of Venezuela is precisely what we need to win the war on terrorism...we have to finish the job of draining the swamp. We need to make a high-profile example out of him, and start punishing countries that harbor Al Quaeda and its ilk. Especially here. After that, Panama's president needs to be talked to about Hutchinson Wampoa's corruptly-obtained leases...and permitting their country to become a covert military base. China needs to be kicked out.

If we don't clean house in the Western Hemisphere, we will be considered by our enemies everywhere as incredibly weak or self-deluded by arrogance. And our job in the Middle East to 'drain the swamp' will just be made impossible, as we become paralyzed by what the left-controlled European and American media tell us is 'acceptable.'

Once Iraq is liberated, we need to take care of this just as swiftly as we can. It should be conducted as a war of liberation, just as Afghanistan was. We need to use special forces to back the faction wanting liberty. But to minimize the media firestorm, I recommend SWIFT action, without any prior approach to the U.N. or even the O.A.S. There will be no avoiding having to go through the House and Senate, but if the ground is laid for the call for intervention, it should be do-able.

32 posted on 02/21/2003 6:53:40 AM PST by Paul Ross (From the State Looking Forward to Global Warming! Let's Drown France!)
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To: Paul Ross
Can't say I find much to disagree with there. Good post.
33 posted on 02/21/2003 6:56:34 AM PST by William McKinley (You're so vain, you probably think this tagline's about you)
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To: Paul Ross
Unless we take firm action along the lines you suggest ... and do so across the board from Venezuela, to Central America to our own borders and with nations like China ... we will only embolden these tyrants.

That will lead to world war IMHO, something on the order of, or of the nature of Dragon's Fury.

Great post.

Jeff

34 posted on 02/21/2003 7:07:29 AM PST by Jeff Head
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To: Paul Ross
Thank you so much for sharing your analysis and suggestions!
35 posted on 02/21/2003 7:38:13 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Paul Ross

Venezuela`s President Hugo Chavez review troops as he arrives to Lara, 200 miles west Caracas late February 20, 2003. Venezuelan police on Thursday arrested a top industrialist Carlos Fernandez for civil rebellion after he led a strike against Chavez, in a move opponents feared was the start of a political witch-hunt. Chavez hailed the arrest of Fernandez as belated justice for 'terrorists' in what his opponents feared was just the beginning of a crackdown. REUTERS/HO-MiraFlores Palace
36 posted on 02/21/2003 7:43:38 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Bump
37 posted on 02/21/2003 8:16:48 AM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ...)
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To: *Latin_America_List
http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/bump-list
38 posted on 02/21/2003 8:25:19 AM PST by Free the USA (Stooge for the Rich)
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