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Fr. Schroth isn't as much a heretic as Fr. Greeley but then again, is there such a thing as being a little heretic?

At least he described the conservative and "progressive" positions pretty well.  He is, of course, a "progressive" who spoke to Voice of the Faithful about women priests.  (Voice of the Faithful draws curious to Morris church)

1 posted on 01/05/2003 12:13:45 PM PST by Incorrigible
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To: Coleus; ELS; *Catholic_list
Bump
2 posted on 01/05/2003 12:14:33 PM PST by Incorrigible
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To: Incorrigible
As an Episcopalian, I'd propose that the Catholic Church preserve the traditions of it's first 1000 years, and the continuing tradition of the Orthodox churches, and allow priests to marry. This would assist in helping priests to have a mature understanding of human sexuality and family life. Note that no priest, gay or straight, should be tolerated as having sexual relations wiht anyone they are not married to; thus, any homosexual clergy would have to be celibate, as would any unmarried heterosexual clergy. And yes, I realize that the record of the ECUSA on this last is not 100%. But it should be, and those who have violated it are in the minority and are condemned by the majority of both the clergy and laity. Secondly, I'd return to the practice of the primitive church and involve the laity in the selection of priests and bishops for parishes and dioceses. This would enable the laity to examine candidates for these offices and keep the clergy from hiding many of the issues that have followed some Roman Catholic priests and bishops from parish to parish. Imagine if a priest was a candidate for a parish, and the new parish could call the old parish to see what his record was and why he left there before the new parish accepted him. This would help break up the conspiracy of silence that has apparently held forth in some Roman Catholic diocesean offices.

Those of you who are Catholic may not hold with some of the doctrines and practices of the ECUSA, but you hear of very few ECUSA priests accused of child abuse or molestation.

3 posted on 01/05/2003 12:49:53 PM PST by RonF
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To: Incorrigible
From the Daily Record article:

Schroth later said some topics, such as ordination of women, are too hot right now for serious discussion. He added that he expects it to happen when people want it to happen.

"Women, I suspect, will be ordained only after the church has experimented more with married clergy," Schroth told the audience.

It looks like Fr. Schroth has forgotten (?) his basic theology. It ain't gonna happen because it is not in God's plan. Sheesh. Why doesn't he do the honorable thing and leave the Church?

11 posted on 01/05/2003 2:48:57 PM PST by ELS
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To: nickcarraway; Polycarp; Siobhan
ping

17 posted on 01/05/2003 5:42:40 PM PST by Desdemona
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To: Incorrigible; 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; american colleen; ...
VOTF is just another euphemism for frustrated, liberal, cafeteria catholics from the Woodstock generation who don't get their own way. It's just a front for their liberal agenda and they bring unsuspecting people into their organization who think it's an organization to "help" the chuch only to find out it's "against" the church--let the Pope and his bishops do the running of the Church as Christ wanted it to be.

http://thewandererpress.com/b9-19-02.htm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/729882/posts

Kenote speakers at VOTF meetings:

** Leonard Swidler, professor of Catholic thought at Temple University. Well-known for his work in the formation of a "global ethic" with dissenting theologian Hans Kung, Swidler is also the founder of the Association for the Rights of Catholics in the Church (www.arcc-catholic-rights.org). As the chair of the association's constitution international drafting committee, he's responsible for drawing up a constitution for a more "democratic" church which includes the proposal for elected leaders; term limits for those leaders; a legislative, executive, and judicial branches of government; and opening up leadership positions to all people, including "women and minorities."

** James Carroll, columnist for the Boston Globe. Carroll, a self-proclaimed Catholic, was ordained a priest in 1969 but left the priesthood in 1974 and married before his laicization, effectively excommunicating himself. His columns in the Globe confirm that he believes in contraception, abortion, and women's ordination. Additionally, he rejects numerous fundamental Church teachings, such as the divinity of Jesus Christ. In a July 16 column, Carroll stated that at the VOTF convention, "deeper questions must be confronted as well -- the role of the laity in church governance, assumptions of sexual morality, the place of women, the pathologies of clericallism, the 'creeping infallibility' that corrupts church teaching."

** Debra Haffner, a member and former president of the Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States (SIECUS). SIECUS promotes guidelines for sex education for children grades K-12, guidelines which approve of children ages 5-8 being taught that masturbation and homosexuality are acceptable practices. Not only that, they also urge that 12- to 15-year-olds be taught how to obtain and use contraceptives.

Haffner is also the cofounder of the Religious Institute on Sexual Morality, Justice, and Healing (www.religionproject.org). The institute's "Religious Declaration on Sexual Morality, Justice, and Healing" calls for "theological reflection that integrates the wisdom of excluded, often silenced peoples, and insights about sexuality from medicine, social science, the arts and humanities; full inclusion of women and sexual minorities in congregational life, including their ordination and the blessing of same sex unions...[and] support for those who challenge sexual oppression and who work for justice within their congregations and denomination." Haffner has also been quoted as saying, "No matter what gender orientation you have -- bisexual, transgender -- no matter what sex you are, no matter what age you are, no matter what marital status you are, no matter what sexual orientation you are, you have a right to sex."

** Tom Groome, professor of theology at Boston College. Groome gave an interview to BBC 4 World Forum on the sex-abuse scandal in which he commented on the Church: "Catholic Christians are...distinguishing between their faith in the tradition and their faith in the institution.... The Church is terribly important to us, but we won't exaggerate the importance, as it were, of the institution." On priestly celibacy and women's ordination: "I think that [priestly celibacy] has to be revisited, likewise the exclusion of women from ministry has to be rethought. But that's not a liberal position...." On ecclesial hierarchy: "I would love to see an overhaul in how our bishops are chosen because right now they're chosen by a kind of subterfuge -- a kind of backroom politics." And finally, on the pope: "I do think that the problem of an enfeebled pope becomes fairly trransparent, especially when the Church faces such a tragedy in a crisis time as we are in at the moment."

** Michele Dillon, professor of sociology at the University of New Hampshire. Dillon has published several books, including Debating Divorce: Moral Conflict in Ireland; Gay and Lesbian Catholics; and Catholic Identity: Balancing Reason, Faith, and Power, a work focusing on why "pro-change" Catholics (such as those who support abortion, women's ordination, and homosexuality) remain in the Church.
24 posted on 01/05/2003 7:05:06 PM PST by Coleus
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To: Incorrigible
It was NOT sad to see Law fall ... and we didn't see that part.

Law "fell" when he failed to protect the innocent and powerless. He didn't "fall" when he gave up the perks of power. And seeing this creepy evil man leave office is a call for celebration. It's NOT sad.

It was sad to see his fall; but it is tragic that some bishops, like Law, have carried themselves less as servants than as princes on thrones.

99 posted on 01/06/2003 8:23:49 PM PST by GOPJ
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To: Incorrigible; All
It was NOT sad to see Law fall ... and we didn't see that part.

Law "fell" when he failed to protect the innocent and powerless. He didn't "fall" when he gave up the perks of power. And seeing this creepy evil man leave office is a call for celebration. It's NOT sad.

It was sad to see his fall; but it is tragic that some bishops, like Law, have carried themselves less as servants than as princes on thrones.

100 posted on 01/06/2003 8:24:18 PM PST by GOPJ
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To: Incorrigible
It was NOT sad to see Law fall ... and we didn't see that part.

Law "fell" when he failed to protect the innocent and powerless. He didn't "fall" when he gave up the perks of power. And seeing this creepy evil man leave office is a call for celebration. It's NOT sad.

It was sad to see his fall; but it is tragic that some bishops, like Law, have carried themselves less as servants than as princes on thrones.

103 posted on 01/06/2003 8:25:08 PM PST by GOPJ
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