How to tell the story of a church scandal

Newark Star Ledger ^ | 1/5/03 | Raymond A. Schroth, S.J.

[Incorrigible]

Fr. Schroth isn't as much a heretic as Fr. Greeley but then again, is there such a thing as being a little heretic?

At least he described the conservative and "progressive" positions pretty well.  He is, of course, a "progressive" who spoke to Voice of the Faithful about women priests.  (Voice of the Faithful draws curious to Morris church)

[Incorrigible]

Bump

[RonF]

As an Episcopalian, I'd propose that the Catholic Church preserve the traditions of it's first 1000 years, and the continuing tradition of the Orthodox churches, and allow priests to marry. This would assist in helping priests to have a mature understanding of human sexuality and family life. Note that no priest, gay or straight, should be tolerated as having sexual relations wiht anyone they are not married to; thus, any homosexual clergy would have to be celibate, as would any unmarried heterosexual clergy. And yes, I realize that the record of the ECUSA on this last is not 100%. But it should be, and those who have violated it are in the minority and are condemned by the majority of both the clergy and laity. Secondly, I'd return to the practice of the primitive church and involve the laity in the selection of priests and bishops for parishes and dioceses. This would enable the laity to examine candidates for these offices and keep the clergy from hiding many of the issues that have followed some Roman Catholic priests and bishops from parish to parish. Imagine if a priest was a candidate for a parish, and the new parish could call the old parish to see what his record was and why he left there before the new parish accepted him. This would help break up the conspiracy of silence that has apparently held forth in some Roman Catholic diocesean offices.

Those of you who are Catholic may not hold with some of the doctrines and practices of the ECUSA, but you hear of very few ECUSA priests accused of child abuse or molestation.

[Incorrigible]

Episcopalian bishops refuse to revive motion on same-sex unions

Episcopalians seek common ground on gays

Episcopalians still championing gay rights

EPISCOPALIANS TO DEBATE RESOLUTION ASKING MEMBERS TO GIVE UP THEIR WEAPONS

[Incorrigible]

Conservative Episcopal priest defrocked

New Episcopal bishop voices liberal views

Episcopal Rector Suspended (Opposes Ordination of Women, Gays)

Cherokee Episcopal priestess set to become bishop [my title, complete w/barf alert]

Schism Opens in Episcopal Church.

Churches and Priests Leaving Episcopal Denomination in Increasing Numbers

[Incorrigible]

A path of abuse crosses church lines -- Brothers, both former altar boys, say they were shared by Catholic and Episcopal priests and an Episcopal seminarian.

[Incorrigible]

Ex-[Episcopal] priest sentenced -- Shissler gets 24 years to life for raping boys; more cases feared

[valkyrieanne]

As RonF pointed out, the ECUSA has *not* been "100%" in this regard. However, only one of the multiple links posted had anything to do with the sexual abuse of children.

Episcopal crimes generally include embezzlement and adultery, not child sexual abuse (although it does rarely occur.)

[valkyrieanne]

Forgot about Schissler. Even so, the numbers aren't there. In any case, no matter what the denomination those convicted should be treated most severely.

[Campion]

I'd propose that the Catholic Church preserve ... the continuing tradition of the Orthodox churches, and allow priests to marry.

The Orthodox do not "allow priests to marry". They ordain married men. There's a significant difference.

Those of you who are Catholic may not hold with some of the doctrines and practices of the ECUSA, but you hear of very few ECUSA priests accused of child abuse or molestation.

Someone else will have do the research. Suffice it to say that they have a significant problem on their hands, as well. Attend to the plank in your own eye.

[ELS]

From the Daily Record article:

Schroth later said some topics, such as ordination of women, are too hot right now for serious discussion. He added that he expects it to happen when people want it to happen.

"Women, I suspect, will be ordained only after the church has experimented more with married clergy," Schroth told the audience.

It looks like Fr. Schroth has forgotten (?) his basic theology. It ain't gonna happen because it is not in God's plan. Sheesh. Why doesn't he do the honorable thing and leave the Church?

[RonF]

The Orthodox do not "allow priests to marry". They ordain married men. There's a significant difference.

So if someone is ordained while single, they are not allowed to marry? Thanks. I was unaware of this.

Someone else will have do the research. Suffice it to say that they have a significant problem on their hands, as well. Attend to the plank in your own eye.

A significant problem with what? Child abuse? Sorry, if you're going to make that allegation you'll have to do the research and present it yourself to be credible.

[RonF]

Oh, I knew as soon as I posted anything about the ECUSA on here that people would bring up all kinds of things irrelevant to the issue at hand. My point was that the differences between the organization of the ECUSA and the organization of the RCC might help explain why the ECUSA doesn't have the problem that the RCC does in this regard.

[sinkspur]

My point was that the differences between the organization of the ECUSA and the organization of the RCC might help explain why the ECUSA doesn't have the problem that the RCC does in this regard.

All denominations have problems with pederasty, as do all school districts and any other venue in which adults have close contact with young people.

The reason the Catholic Church has such a problem is the clericalism, which encourages bishops to protect priests, no matter what.

Yes, the Catholic Church would be infinitely better off if priests, and lay people, had some say in the selection of bishops. Yes, the Catholic Church would be better off if the priesthood were open to married men, starting with the men who left the priesthood to marry and the permananent deacons who might feel called to the priesthood. Then, allow any married man of sufficient probity to petition the Church for ordination.

Celibacy provides witness value only for those called to it, and there are not many men called to it, priests included. I can relate stories of friends of mine who have been priests for years who have to fight to remain celibate, to not give in to the yearning for the companionship of a woman (it's NOT about sex!)

I'm not tempted to adultery, and never have been. But, I had to struggle with celibacy for the entire seven years I was in the seminary.

[ELS]

ping

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

As an Episcopalian, I'd propose that the Catholic Church preserve the traditions of it's first 1000 years, and the continuing tradition of the Orthodox churches, and allow priests to marry.

As a Catholic , I propose that you do some research before trying to pass yourself off as an expert on the discipline of celibacy and it's history, because you aren't. The discipline of celibacy dates back to the Apostles. As for the Orthodox Church, married men may be ordained but once ordained, priests may not then marry and all bishops are chosen exclusively from celibate priests.

[Desdemona]

ping

[RonF]

Celibacy being honored and encouraged as a voluntarily adopted discipline certainly dates back to the Apostles in Christianity. Outside of Christianity, it goes back to the beginning of recorded history. But as a discipline required of priests, I'm not so sure that it goes back that far.

[RonF]

Celibacy provides witness value only for those called to it,

There it is in a nutshell.

[Coleus]

It happens in most if not all religions.

"CHURCH EVANGELIZERS PREYED ON LOW-INCOME KIDS.

Men from a rural Baptist church known for its aggressive evangelizing of children are suspected of molesting as many as 22 boys & girls. The associate pastor, volunteer bus driver & a third church member are believed to have fondled some & raped others, ranging in age from 3 to 10, on church buses & property. Charges involving 10 victims were brought against Associate Pastor Timothy Lee Leonard, 32, of North Sharon Baptist Church near Grass Lake, & volunteer Sunday school bus driver, church deacon Mark Foeller. Three other church members are being investigated. The suspects went to low-income housing projects or trailer parks in 4 counties, telling parents they would "take the children to church & teach them about God", according to Det. Robert Fitzpatrick, Jackson Co. Men would walk up to children in their yards, coaxing them with treats to come to weekend services or summer Bible school. Leonard was relieved of church duties involving children in August, after police started investigating him when a doctor reported suspected abuse in a child with a sexual disease. He also worked as instructor & gym teacher in the North Sharon Christian School, enrolling about 65 students. "
We have to keep our kids _safe_ from Baptist pedophiles!
Buzz Kelly

* BRONSON MINISTER ARRAIGNED.

First Congregational Church minister David Covert Moore was charged with 5 counts of criminal sexual conduct of 4 children under the age of 15. In July he checked himself into Pine Rest Christian Counseling Services in Grand Rapids. Source: Jackson Citizen Patriot 8/29/92.
* AIR FORCE CHAPLAIN RAIDED. Deputies raided the home of Veterans Administration chaplain Rev. Donald G. Phillips, of Butler County, seizing 500 video tapes, movie equipment and restraints following a tip that he produced pornographic movies with young girls. The Baptist minister recently received the highest recognition awarded a VA chaplain, "the Award for Excellence in Chaplain Service". Source:
St. Louis Post-Dispatch 2/19/92.

* BAPTIST VOLUNTEER CONVICTED.

Granite State Baptist Church volunteer David Kirsch, 39, of Salem, was convicted of sexually assaulting 6 young girls through the church from the late 1970s to the mid-1980s.
Source: USA Today 9/25/92.

* MINISTER & GIRLFRIEND INDICTED.

Trenton pastor Franklin Tucker, 37, Final Call Ministry, was indicted for molesting his girlfriend's daughters, 9 & 15. His girlfriend was indicted for forcing her daughters to recant the allegations to police. The abuse came to light when the 9-year-old told a school official, who contacted police. Source: Trenton Times 9/15/92.

* CIVIL SUIT: 11-YEAR-OLD MOLESTED.

A family in Dare County, North Carouna is suing Methodist minister Carl M. Eller for abusing their daughter, 11, as well as the North Carolina Conference of the United Methodist Church, a bishop and a reverend for knowing of his history of sexual misconduct but doing nothing about it. The family says she was molested when her father, a carpenter, was installing cabinets in the parsonage. Eller pleaded no contest to a charge of criminal assault on a female. However, the family said that in 1987 Eller had molested or made lewd comments to 4 women at his church, and forcibly kissed and touched 2 girls age 13. Three women had lodged formal complaints with the church, but the only action was to transfer him from Aurora to Hamlet. Source: News & Observer 1/15/92.

* BAPTIST PASTOR RESIGNS AMID SCANDAL.

Asheville Baptist pastor Michael R. Stewart, 34, of Oakley, resigned following his arrest in a prostitution sting. Stewart's name was among 400 on a full-page ad that month promoting family & traditional biblical values. Source:
Citizen-Times 6/30/92.

* CHURCH SUED FOR NEGLIGENCE.

One of several girls who said Alva minister Rev. Robert Bruce Brigden molested her is suing the First Presbyterian Church for failing to check his background before hiring him. Allegations of sexual crimes were made at his former position in Kansas. Charges allege that he molested Alva church girls, ages 4 to 14. The church posted his bond. Source: _Tulsa Tribune

* PRESBYTERIAN MINISTER GETS 40 YEARS.

Rev. Robert Bruce Brigden was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting young girls in his congregation, convicted on 8 counts of lewd molestation & 1 count of rape by instrumentation involving a girl, 7. Bridgen, 57, was accused of molesting 11 girls, aged 4 to 14, during the 4 years he was at the Alva church. His congregation put the church up as bond, insisting he was innocent. He was placed in protected custody. Brigden blamed his arrest on a girl, 4, whose parents were the first to take the children's allegations seriously. "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned," Brigden wrote his wife about the 4-year-old, whom he described as "4 going on 400 years old", saying she invited him to spend the night in her bed, & was mad that he declined. Source: Tulsa Tribune 8/92, Tulsa World 9/3/92, _Daily Oklahoman_ 6/14/92.

* CHURCH VOLUNTEER CHARGED WITH CHILD PORNOGRAPHY.

Church volunteer Seven Jon Long, 41, was arrested for sodomy and taking pornographic pictures of young girls under 12 from Assembly of God Church in Rogue River, where he was a youth volunteer. He told detectives his pictures were art. Source: Daily Courier, Grants Pass, 4/17/92.

* CONVICTED PASTOR "RIGHT WITH LORD".

Rev. Virgil Carpenter, 48, pastor of Bible Missionary Church in Ontario, was convicted of sodomy & sexual abuse of a girl, 9, over a 1-1/2 year period. A jury convicted Carpenter of 2 felony counts of sodomy & 4 felony counts of sexual abuse. He faces 5 additional felony charges in 2 upcoming trials. "I'm really not worried," he told supporters who had gathered in the courtroom before the verdict. "I'm right with the Lord." Source: Corvallis Gazette-Times 10/11/92.

Why weren't these stories given national press coverage? Why is there a coverup of Christian pedophile ministers' crimes against America's children??? Buzz Kelly