Posted on 10/01/2002 11:14:10 PM PDT by scripter
Amazon.com continues to claim First Amendment grounds for its sale and promotion of a book advocating adult-child sex but has removed an e-mail link to a self-proclaimed pedophile amid mounting pressure organized by a non-profit legal action group in California.
Last week, WND reported that Amazon.com has been accused by the United States Justice Foundation of "contributing to the potential rape and molestation of children" through its online sale of "Understanding Loved Boys and Boylovers," by David L. Riegel, who has responded to questions submitted by WND.
The USJF has given Amazon 30 days to remove the book from its site or face "protracted litigation."
Meanwhile, a search by WorldNetDaily of other pedophile-related books sold by the Seattle-based Internet retailer turned up a title apparently published by the North American Man-Boy Love Association called "Loving Boys."
In another development, the USJF has filed a criminal complaint against Amazon.com with the Seattle Police Department. Also, in one of many boycotts undertaken by groups and private citizens, a publisher has canceled its arrangement with the bookseller.
After WND broke the story last week, Philadelphia's NBC TV affiliate took a camera to the post office box of Riegel's locally-based publisher SafeHaven Press and informed the mail clerk of the company's distribution of pro-pedophile books, according to USJF litigation counsel Richard Ackerman. The clerk expressed disbelief and opened the mailbox, discovering that the only item in the box was a check to SafeHaven from Amazon.com.
SafeHaven Press has an affiliated Web discussion forum operated by Riegel "about responsible intergenerational relationships between males."
Right to choose
Amazon.com has issued a statement emphasizing that it does not endorse "Understanding Boys and Boylovers," but insists that "people have the right to choose their own reading material."
The bookseller says, "Our goal is to support freedom of expression and to provide customers with the broadest selection possible so they can find, discover, and buy any title they might be seeking."
Ackerman says Amazon can be prosecuted for unethical behavior under California's unfair business practice laws.
"I was honestly hoping, against all reason, that they would do the right thing and simply take this off their site," Ackerman told WND. "And so I guess what's going to have to happen from here on out is that we'll go to every possible source. If I have to go to [Attorney General John] Ashcroft, I will."
Seattle police Sgt. Brian Johnson, who oversees the department's Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force, said he has not been informed of Ackerman's complaint.
He promised to research the issue with his legal department, but said that so far every one of his previous investigations has entailed actual images of child pornography.
"There is not much we have done with written words," Johnson told WND. "There is so much of the other stuff out there."
Regarding a case such as Amazon's, "a lot of it depends on the city, whether it's something they would want to pursue," he said. "My personal thought is, probably not."
In a letter faxed to Amazon CEO Jeffrey Bezos Sept. 25, Ackerman pointed out that beneath a description of the book was a customer review that linked to the e-mail address of a man who described himself as a pedophile. The reviewer said he found Riegel's book "to be enlightening in my quest to truly come to terms with my own sexuality."
Since then, the link to the e-mail address – which began with "minrfiend" – has been removed, though the review remains.
Ackerman said he was unaware of this development.
"I wish they would have told me that," he said of Amazon. "I've gotten no response from them, none."
"It's very saddening," he continued, "because they've hidden behind the First Amendment to justify what they are doing and yet they don't have the moral courage to actually respond to us."
Ackerman noted that Amazon declined an offer to join him in his appearance on the Fox News program "The O'Reilly Factor" last Friday.
WND's call to an Amazon spokesperson yesterday was not returned.
NAMBLA on Amazon
The book, according to Amazon, published by the North American Man-Boy Love Association was written by the late Edward Brongersma, a member of the Dutch Senate who went to prison for sexual contact with an under-aged boy. Later, Brongersma returned to public office and helped repeal the Netherlands' age of consent law.
For many years, he was on the editorial board of Paidika: The Journal of Paedophilia, the Dutch-based advocate of adult-child sex.
In his book "Loving Boys" – which, according to other sources, has been published by Global Academic Publishers – Brongersma "eschews both the common Judeo-Christian belief that man-boy contacts are morally wrong and the traditional psychiatric premise (never honestly tested) that they are unnatural, perverted and harmful for boys."
Brongersma co-edited a book also carried by Amazon.com called "Male Intergenerational Intimacy: Historical, Socio-Psychological, and Legal Perspectives."
That book is one of a growing body of material that purportedly makes an academic and scientific case for acceptance of sexual relationships between adults and children. Earlier this year, the University of Minnesota Press published Judith Levine's "Harmful to Minors: The Perils of Protecting Children from Sex," which seeks to challenge "widespread anxieties" about pedophilia.
Riegel, noting the emergence of "landmark studies and papers" in the past 10 years, said that Levine's book probably would not have been published by a university press "even as recently as two or three years ago."
In his book, Riegel espouses "responsible boylove," which, he maintains, has nothing to do with molestation and abuse.
In an e-mail response to questions by WND, Riegel claimed that "fear, ignorance and intolerance" are at the roots of the public's "misunderstanding" about men involved in sexual relationships with boys.
"Understanding can only come about through dialogue," he told WND. "And dialogue is what people like Ackerman, [Pro-Family Law Center's Scott] Lively, and a host of other self proclaimed 'moral' crusaders, are afraid of. They do not subscribe to Voltaire's 'I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.' Their motto is 'I disagree with what you say, and I will silence you one way or another.'"
Ackerman said, "My question for Mr. Riegel is, having been a victim of this stuff myself, I'd like him to openly come out in the public and talk about whether the First Amendment protects his right to engage in this type of authorship and promotion of, in my opinion, moral filth."
Ackerman argues that society has accepted that there are limits to free speech.
"We don't apply that same standard to hate speech, or hate crimes," he said. "We certainly don't apply that standard to plotting the violent overthrow of the United States government."
Boycott
In an e-mail response to a complaint about the book by a Texas-based group called Hands Off Our Kids, or HOOK, Amazon.com employee John Cameron wrote:
"Please know that, contrary to rumors that have been circulating around the Internet, this book is not a 'how-to' manual for molesting children. The author simply expresses his point of view about what he feels are 'misunderstood' relationships between men and boys."
But Ackerman believes Amazon has a responsibility to protect children from materials that expressly advocate what he and mainstream society – including businesses like Amazon.com – consider dangerous ideas.
"Exposing a child to the idea that they should be part of a 'misunderstood' relationship is as offensive as taking the boy to the back of a soccer field and explaining the exact same thing to him," Ackerman said.
Last week, Davidson Press informed WND that it will no longer sell its books on Amazon.com. The publisher of Bibles and related materials posted its new policy "within minutes" of reading WND's story last week, said Editor Charles Welty.
Author John Culea, a former TV anchorman who has three books on Amazon's site, decided to sever his relationship with the online retailer after hearing about the controversy last week on the San Diego-based Roger Hedgecock talk radio program. Culea also requested that Amazon remove Riegel's book, which he calls "a smoke screen for pedophilia."
Ackerman's group has posted an online petition at a website called Conservative Petitions.com. The petition has been forwarded by fax or e-mail to Amazon by over 1,200 people. Ackerman said, however, that the petition drive has not been fully launched yet and expects many more responses when Conservative Petitions alerts its list of about half a million people.
The issue also has been taken up by groups such as Focus on the Family and the Traditional Values Coalition. Ackerman says also he plans to take the issue to the American Family Association, which has the resources and network to launch a massive boycott drive.
On Friday, Kim Vandiver, founding director of Hands Off Our Kids, warned Amazon that it will promote a broad boycott through its constituency if the company does not remove "this filth, which is not only immoral, but a danger to the children we, as a society, and that includes corporations, have a duty to protect."
After receiving Amazon's standard reply, Vandiver wrote back, stating, "I do not appreciate receiving a form letter filled with rhetoric from Amazon.com on such an important issue. It does, however, indicate that Amazon.com does not take this boycott seriously and is not willing to work for the public good."
A third reply to Vandiver assured her that her previous correspondence had been considered, but said, "Please understand that the information provided in our last message correctly represents our policy at this time."
"I can't imagine that Amazon.com wants to come into the holiday season facing this," Ackerman said, "and I will do whatever I can to make sure this blows up in their face right in the prime of holiday shopping. I'm not going to let them get away with this."
Related stories:
Amazon.com accused of aiding molesters
Amazon offers pedophile handbook
Pedophile advocate featured at university
'Nothing new' in book condoning child sex
An important factor when business is all that Namblazon cares about.
I agree, and I thought I made that clear in my post.
And if you think there are more people who wish to read The Turner Diaries than are puking over Namblazon's decision here - I think you may be wrong!
Probably not, but a great many people and organizations will not patronize companies that refuse to carry books for political reasons. I’m one. The American Library Association, sponsor of Banned Books Week, is another.
I can reach easily about 1,000 people in churches here - and who will refuse to go to Namblazon for books. A lot of others will be doing the same. Jeff NAMBLA Bezos is contributing to the rape of children. Society should puke.
Knock yourself out. On the off chance you will succeed, so what? A thousand other on-line retailers will still carry the material and you wont keep it from a single person who wants it.
An important factor when business is all that Namblazon cares about.
Maybe so, and there’s nothing illegal about that. But there are also a lot of booksellers who believe in the free marketplace of ideas. An advocate may present the case for any idea, no matter how deplorable most think it. That is the core of your First Amendment rights. Let the author make his case. If the argument has merit, it may be embraced, if not it will be abandoned. Either way, it is the publics’ decision.
It's not just the author. It's Jeff Bezos joining in. And you're right, it is the public's decision. It's sad, though, when we actively aid and abet those who promote child rape. Someday, something like that will hit home close to you, and you will think differently. As for the American Library Association - it's a scummy organization which could care less if kids are exposed to pornography in libraries and would turn our town libraries into porno shops. But, hey - who else would be supporting Jeff NAMBLA Bezos? Two peas on a scummy pod, I would say.
Hey there, billybudd, you're wrong. We in this country have the right to free speech (subject to very few limitations). The author of this book has every right to write it, to sell it, to hand it out on the street corner, etc. etc. Censorship (and denial of 1st amendment rights) would be the act of forcing this guy to shut up. But nobody is contemplating that. Preventing Amazon from selling this book in NO way censors the author. The author (or anybody else) has no 'right' to have someone else sell his book for him. As for forcing Amazon to desist, if, as the article states, there are laws against unethical business practices (and for me, this certainly constitutes such a case), then I say go for it. That's not censoring the author. That would simply be saying that we as a society should not be promoting child rape - an action which could well lead to an increase in sexual abuse (and in this case, homosexual abuse) against children (which has already gone off the charts in this country anyway).
First of all, homosexual pedophiles who have molested boys have in the past claimed they were encouraged to do so by NAMBLA literature - which is similar. Any moral person, if they thought there were even the slightest chance that aiding in the promotion of these ideas would encourage molestors to abuse boys, would immediately desist from encouraging the promotion of such. Clearly, there is some chance of that happening. It's exactly the same with shows like Jackass or pro-wrestling on TV, where many kids went out and got really hurt by imitating what they saw on TV. Any moral person would not put out shows that led to kids getting hurt. And if some kid is shown to have been raped as a result of this book, the blame rests foursquare with the author AND with Namblazon, for having sold it to thousands, knowing that some could be encouraged to do evil things to boys. And let's see - do you not think that there are potential pedophiles buying this book? Doing ANYTHING at all that has some chance of causing kids to be sexually molested or raped is highly immoral and unethical. Apart from that, it's just as highly unethical and immoral to give aid and sustenance to people who would promote child rape. If a man wanted to promote the rape of women by standing on a soapbox, and I gave him use of my property to do so at a fairground loaded with people, and he got up on the box and implored young men to consider the 'virtues' of raping women, we'd both have committed highly immoral acts. As for censorship, again, no one would deny this man his first amendment rights. Since the constitution does NOT speak to this issue, then Namblazon is bound by whatever laws legislatures pass. If such laws are applicable here, then I say force Namblazon to desist. Today, my kids are being forced to hear homosexual propaganda in school, their Boy Scout troop has been targeted by militant homosexual activists, who want to be my sons' scoutmasters on overnight camping trips, we've had two boys homosexually molested in our town (and one murdered), my Church is beset by literally thousands of teenage boy rapes at the hands of priests, and now we're all in a dither because someone might say that Namblazon's helping to promote homosexual child rape is not OK. You take your stand; I'll take mine. At the end of the day, some kid you know, or know of, will be sexually molested, and you'll say to yourself - I indirectly helped bring this about.
Again, this is not a first amendment issue, unless Namblazon wants to actively take a position in favor of child rape (which it says it does not).
The First Amendment argument here is a big pile of warm crap. The First Amendment does not give you the "right" to go into a crowded theater and yell "Fire!" And in this case in particular, the First Amendment does not guarantee you the "right" to solicit criminal activity.
I do too.I just sent amazon an email stating I will no longer be a customer of their service.
Bump
Thank God, the book got pulled.
Have you seen the following article which came out yesterday with a very similar title?
Book defending pedophilia for sale on Amazon
I figured you searched and found the old one first...
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.