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To: BlackElk
American Hispanics voted for Reagan in fairly large numbers but people who lump the so-called Hispanic vote together tend to include long-time Americans of the SW in with the newcomers from Mexico ---they really aren't quite the same. Lumping them together makes it look like the Hispanics are becoming more democrat in the way they vote but if you separate the immigrant from the non-immigrant Hispanics you probably wouldn't find that to be the case.
18 posted on 08/10/2002 1:00:56 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: FITZ
Conservatives are our own worst enemy. Next to the RINO backstabbers who usually are the first to desert our candidate at the first sign of trouble. Do the Rats do it to their own? Have they deserted GrayDown? We could use a lesson in sticking by our party from yes our liberal adversaries. The liberals don't give up when the odds are against them. We should learn to buckle up and ride onto the finish line with all guns blazing. We may or may not win but hard work is its own reward.
19 posted on 08/10/2002 1:07:17 PM PDT by goldstategop
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To: FITZ
When Eastern European Jews came here a century ago, many of them who voted usually voted Communist and some others Socialist. These were often Jews fleeing Tsarist pogroms. Eastern European Jews were long a very resistant group to GOP voting. In 1968, Richard Nixon got 3% of the Jewish vote as a whole. Hubert Humphrey got most of the rest. George Wallace probably none or close to none and third party leftists as much as Nixon.

By 1980, thanks to Jimmy Carter's thoroughgoing incompetence, constant irritation of those not sharing his religious beliefs (most candidates practice their religion rather than preach it and being born again is uncharted territory for most Jews of any persuasion), Ronald Reagan, a nice guy, and a hardliner compared to Nixon or Ford, got 44% of the Jewish vote (not all of them German Jews by ancestry) and even Jake Javits, beaten in a GOP primary by D'Amato and running only on the Liberal Party line, took time out to campaign hard for Reagan among elderly keft Jewish voters in Florida saying that unless Reagan won Israel was finished.

You may well be right about the distinction between Hispanics born here and Hispanics coming in from Mexico. Nothing new there. Many immigrants are attracted to the Demonrats because Santa Claus's welfare state is what they are more familiar with than American free enterprise. Nonetheless, they have little ambition that their children and grandchildren should have careers as welfare queens. Give them time. With voting populations, you have to prime the pump.

People like thee and me (not necessarily literally you and me) are not reproducing themselves in the numbers necessary to maintain your standards of political conservatism or mine. Furthermore, many conservatives take the easy way out and turn their kids over to the local knowledge suppression factory and brain laundry known as public schools, assuring themselves (to protect their own convenience) that THEIR public schools are fine and it is many others that are no good. 94% of American kids are still relegated to the intellectual ash heap of public grammar and high schools.

We ought to be yanking our kids from government schools permanently, to be defunding those schools, destroying their reputations and building private alternatives. If we defund government schools, plenty of money will be available and we ought not to let the gummint get its meddling paws and claws on those schools. Personally, I think we can do with a spirit of sacrifice and without vouchers. Set up schools with English immersion and patriotic history and moral conservatism and high academic standards and see how fast this apparent immigration problem can be turned into our greatest opportunity. Check out how well even the Stone Age Montagnard Vietnamese villagers who fled here after the war have done. No one had ever been literate in their families in the old country. Here, their kids are valedictorians regularly and the kind of citizens who make you feel good to be American.

If we won't raise our birthrate (and we ought to anyway) and won't shut the leftist parochial schools known as "public" schools (which we ought to anyway), then there is no way whatsoever other than recruiting massive waves of immigrants and successfully competing with the left for their allegiance for us to win. We can do this if we try, but will we? If we think this problem is going to go away via border control, we are tragically naive and terribly wrong. It is VERY late in the game for our country and our ideological way of life.

I have butted heads with you hereon on numerous occasions, I appreciate the seriousness with which you urge your position. I often respectfully disagree with you.

If I were to debate an issue, any issue, with those who disagree with me on that issue, let me debate before an audience of my opponent's partisans. Then I can convince them or not according to the quality of my argument and the weakness of my opponent. If the audience starts out only his, he may enjoy their partisan applause but every convert will be mine. Likewise, if Hispanics pouring across the border seem to you to be hopelessly and unanimously aligned with your opponents and mine, that is a great opportunity to go straight to them so that every convert (as to values) will be yours. Recruit conservative Hispanics born here to act as padrones. It can work. It must work.

28 posted on 08/10/2002 8:00:09 PM PDT by BlackElk
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