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First: What the hell am I doing up this late when I have to get up in 3, make that 2 hours??

Second: OPH, you are correct. I fail to understand the fixation on Waco and Ruby Ridge. They were bad. They were the result of bad decisions by a whole bunch of people, some, or even many, of whom are not evil, they're just civil servants.

They work for a big organization. And we know what happens to organizations when they get big. They get stupid. See any large corporation, American or otherwise. No matter how successful and full of bright people, eventually the incentives system skews toward illogical and/or counterproductive outcomes. And so, those are the outcomes you get.

And yeah, some of the people are bad, stupid, evil, etc. But not all. Maybe the people at the top (Reno, etc.) were evil geniuses bent of subverting America. But the battleship of the bureaucracy takes a long time to turn, and I wager that these outcomes could have occurred no matter who was in charge, because, as you observed, bureaucrats operate in an incompetent, hamhanded fashion. They do this because there is no incentive to operate in a different fashion, and the hiring system tends to staff the bureaucracy with incompetent, hamhanded types.

It isn't a conspiracy, folks. It is what you get with an ever-growing government.

It is exactly what the Founders and the Framers were afraid of.

They knew we didn't need an actual Tyrant to end up with Tyranny. (though that makes it easier) All that is needed is unfettered government. They tried, and created, a limited government. Unfortunately, their successors have had over 200 years to grow the beast.

Power corrupts. We are reaping a harvest that has been sown over a long, long time.

Both atrocities could have been prevented. In the case of Waco, the Davidians and Koresh in particular had 54 days to just come out or at least send the women and kids out. Hell even at the Alamo, the defenders sent the women and kids out of harms way. On the Feds side they could have just hunkered down and waited. Ruby Ridge is the same scenario. Weaver had 18 months to answer the gun rap and decided to make a "last stand". It is ironic that the only ones that actually made the "last stand" was his wife and son and he walked away with 3.1 mil. The Feds OTH were despicable in their handling of the final show down. The assembly of fire power was obscene and the US Marshall that lied about the initial contact with the kid should be breaking rocks. Both sides hold equal responsibility for both events.

Main Line of Mid-America said: 'I fail to understand the fixation on Waco and Ruby Ridge. They were bad. They were the result of bad decisions by a whole bunch of people, some, or even many, of whom are not evil, they're just civil servants."

Waco and Ruby Ridge are the outcome of infringements of the right to keep and bear arms, not "bad decisions".

People who understand the Constitution and the Second Amendment understand when the boot of the tyrant is on their neck. They can sense that the perpetrators of injustice will see to it that they are punished for opposing the tyranny. Both Weaver and Koresh knew that surrender would be followed by lies. The lies told in the aftermath of these brutal outrages prove them right.

I tire of hearing that free people must wait for "due process" when the Second Amendment is clearly being infringed.

Why should I have to submit to a day in court because Kalifornia has decided that I may not own a rifle with a pistol grip? I can feel the foot of the tyrant on my neck.