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To: joanie-f; Landru; Common Tator
"It appears that the ‘milquetoast moderate’ wing (a wing in which many supposed conservatives seem to take up at least temporary residence more and more often) is quite immune to wake up calls, just as it appears that the sins of the (‘read my lips’) father have been visited upon his son."

I still believe Dubyuh has to have learned a thing or two from his Daddy's needless demise, but I remain unimpressed with his domestic agenda to date. Perhaps that's what it takes to get elected to America's highest office these days, but it seems like a little intestinal fortitude would go a long way in securing the base for a significant run against the Federal Leviathan, were Dubyuh so inclined.

"I, for one, intend to continue to whine….and steel myself against the ‘Bush hater’ label."

I'm no BushBasher, either, and am perfectly willing to verbally-whup any FReeper's butt who alleges otherwise...still, it is unnerving that so many on OUR side of the aisle are perfectly willing to excuse governmental excesses by Dubyuh that they'd never allow by Der SchleekMeister. Contrary to popular FReeper belief, Principles really DO matter!!

"Life and liberty, as guaranteed in their hard-won blueprint, are not to be taken for granted. And the more capitulation by conservatives to those who place little value on either (no matter the supposed stealth political rationale behind their concessions to the leftists....who always seize the opportunity to use milquetoast to their advantage), the less their conservatism rings true. Bush may be a conservative at heart, but there comes a point when.... if it claims to be an eagle, but looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...."

Folks whose opinions I trust and respect, like Landru and C.T., keep telling me to be patient, so I shall, for now. However, attaining Power for Power's sake is a Devil's Bargain if we willingly forfeit those anti-Big-Guv'ment Principles that I use to justify my passion...and I look for the day that the Bush Administration calls in all those chits he's apparently winning from the middle-of-the-roaders in exchange for these so-called "compromises" on domestic policy.

FReegards...MUD

1,336 posted on 06/05/2002 4:20:21 PM PDT by Mudboy Slim
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To: Mudboy Slim
it seems like a little intestinal fortitude would go a long way in securing the base for a significant run against the Federal Leviathan, were Dubyuh so inclined.

The left has had total control of the Education of nearly all Americans younger than 45. As a result the base, as you call it, is very small. It is believed to be less than 15 percent of the voting public. It can not be over 23 percent by any measure.

The US population is about 287 milllion. About 17 million at most call themselves the right wing base. The base of either party can't elect anyone to anything. The bases have shrunk over the years as our eductional system has taught peole to vote for the "man" (i.e. personality) not the party. That is why "I care" and "Feeling your Pain" is so important for winning. The more an office holder is tied to his base the less well he will do in the polls on election day. It is the perception of independance from party and ideology and the perception of being a careing person that wins elections. To move right, one must first make a big deal out of some left sounding thing that means nothing. That lets you run to the right without doing too much damage to your caring image. Having done a right thing, one must follow it with a left leaning thing.

The Clinton tactic of taking the other sides issues is employed because it works. The issues are picked with care. The other sides issues are chosen to sound good but not do too much damage to your side. Two such issues are CFR and Global Warming. Sending some Bull Crap report to the UN is a worthless gesture. It changes nothing but the center's opinion about Dubya. Bush rejected the Kyoto treaty. That is a real step with real consequences. What Bush needed was to sound leftist on the enviornment to counter the anti Kyoto perception. The question is how does one undo the Kyoto rejection as perceived by the uninformed middle. It is simple. Let the media make a big stink about Bush turning toward the left with an enviornmental statement mailed to the UN waste basket. Two years from now when Gore tries to paint Bush as a man who will ruin your lungs with acid rain, the uninformed public will not believe that bush is anti enviornment. They won't knwow why the believe it.. .But they will believe it. IT will be their impression. Gore's accusation will not stick. The name of the the game is creating a counter perception before the accusation. That is what makes accusations fail.

The CFR thing was another such issue. The current CFR was actually very pro Republican bill. It was very anti political groups that are not part of the two major parties. We go BOO because it forces groups like the NRA and Americans for the American way to work through the two parties and not on their own. Under the new law anti Bush forces won't be able to run spots of a helpless black being drug behind a pickup truck. Some of you think that Bush should be infavor of such ads.... You can't understand why he isn't.

From the experience of Europe and Canada, anything that empowerers for independant political forces outside of two parties is not good. It makes for splinter parties. What does work is a two party system, where groups are forced to try to influence and control one of the two parties. That is what the new CFR does in the part that the right opposes. The supreme court will likely scuttle that part. That leaves only the increase in individual doners amounts and the elimination of soft money. The Democrats have far fewer individual doners so they will have to subvert the ban on soft money. The doubling in indiviual doners amounts will cover the Republican soft money losses. Most repuiblican money was "Hard" money. CFR doubles "Hard" money.

State parties are not regulated under CFR, That lets the Democrats channel their big doner money through the state parties. Democrats will have to use the unregulated state parties, and hope some left wing nut does not get control of some state organizations and spend all that states Democratic money on Naderand Company. They will find that when state guys have a say, they will say it. Dubya will just keep raising hard money. Certainly single issue groups are much against CFR. But Europes experience with lots of single issue parties is not good. The left being in more agreement on more issuses tends to win in multi party nations.

To move the nation to the right, one must start at the center. Run to where the center is and then try to move it just a bit to the right... then do it again.. and again. The center decides all elections. If you don't move the center nothing changes. There is zero chance to go from where the center is to where you want to be without moving the center. The right's problem is it must counter the "We don't care about peoples problems" syndrome. All we say is that the problems will fix themselves if government leaves them alone. Our problem is seventy percent of the voters don't believe us.

The first thing Dubya learned from his Dad's failure, is he must be seen to have plans that care in place. Bush Sr. fell when the public believed would not do anything about the economy. We know from Bill Clinton that you don't have to do much. An office holder just has to create the perception of 'CAREING' and the perception of a plan to CARE with. If you go back to 1992 we have Bush looking Katie Couric in the eye and saying "I care." The public looked back and said do somthing to prove it. Bush SR. did nothing to prove it. Bill Clinton said it's the economy stupid, and proposed a worthless plan to fix the economy. The economy as we now know, did not need fixing. But that is beside the point. To win and more importantly change the image of the Republican party, Dubya must move himself and the party to the "I care a lot" category. He must have plans to fix things... even if the plans do nothing and fix nothing. Everything from finger printing visitors, to CFR to Education, to the enviornment is designed to move from the "Don't Care" to the "Do Care" category. Once you are in the "Do Care" category, you can, as Bill Clinton proved, end Welfare As We Know it. All the whining and crying by the New York Times and the Washington Post, Dan Rather, Jennings, Brokaw, and CNN could not stop Welfare Reform because the public knew welfare needed fixing and Clinton cared.

But the center won't let you fix it unless you CARE. As always what a majority of Americans want Amercians get.

Getting majority support is the only game worth playing. It is the only strategy with a chance of implementing an agenda. In that game the bases of either party are worth about 11.5 percent of the total and about 22 percent of what is needed to win. It is obvious to every profesional political player that one can lose 20 percent of the base and gain 6 percent of what is not the base and be better off on election day.

We have to deal with the world as it is. Seventy percent of the population rejects the rights positions on nearly all issues. The media knows that the left wins when they can paint the Repubican candidate as right wing. Every Republican candidate who even wants to entertain wining must counter that fact. A simple strategy that works is for every right wing thing a Republican office older does, he must do a left wing thing. The trick is to pick right wing things that have long term consequences and left wing things that don't mean much of anything but generate publicity.What always amazes me is the left fully understands what the left must do to implement their agenda. The right never understands.

The right believe that if everyone just heard them out, all people would agree with them. The left thinks the right consists of a bunch of dummies that need the left to control every aspect of their lives.

Perhaps Mudboy Slim their is a glimmer of the problem in that final statement.

1,342 posted on 06/06/2002 9:39:57 AM PDT by Common Tator
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To: Mudboy Slim
"...but it seems like a little intestinal fortitude would go a long way in securing the base for a significant run against the Federal Leviathan, were Dubyuh so inclined."

Well.
Where to start?
First, you know what intestinal fortitude "is," & I know what intestinal fortitude "is."
But the vast majority of the public hasn't got a clue as to what that term means, my friend.

Just look around you, Mud; either way down the street in your own neighborhood.
Look at the city where you live.
Look at this generation's kids.
See much intestinal fortitude?
The state of affairs in our nation, right now, is precisely what I'm talking about; and, what our party *&* POTUS must deal with.
That, is the reality of the matter; not your admirable, truly concerned, caring, selfless ideals, Mud.
The Liberal-Socialists *feed* off of distorting, twisting, smearing and framing idealism to fit thier agenda; since, idealism is so easily contrasted against the mean streets of our reality.

When the public doesn't know what it is a pol's doing & why?
When we'd all know what we were witnessing was an act of intestinal fortitude?
The Liberal-Socialists aided by their imps, harpies, & flying monkees within the Lamestream are right there, Johnny on the spot, to tell 'em *what* that pol's doing and why.
Their Liberal-Socialist take; but, of course.
Guess what the public will tell you after hearing the Liberal-Socialist's Lamestream -- per the 'Rat Party's orders -- *analysis*?
~Yea...
Mud, at the moment the Liberal-Socialists sense an act of idealism is being played out?
>POW!<
That's the moment where truth ends; period.
The truth at that point will have no meaning whatsoever, thanks in large part to their Liberal-Socialist Lamestream.

We've just lived through eight long years of that kind of crap; so, surely you recognize the MO?
I mean, tell me true: was not Clintigula Sink Emporer the 1st the consummate master when it came to telling this nation the truth?
~eh?

"I'm no BushBasher, either, and am perfectly willing to verbally-whup any FReeper's butt who alleges otherwise..."

I got to hush-my-mouth, then. {g}

"...still, it is unnerving that so many on OUR side of the aisle are perfectly willing to excuse governmental excesses by Dubyuh that they'd never allow by Der SchleekMeister."

Are you absolutely sure that's what those of our side are actually doing?
*I* am not that certain a'tall, Mud; not by a country mile.

"Contrary to popular FReeper belief, Principles really DO matter!!"

Not to a huge number of unprincipled registered voters.
These kind of people, the kind who're only politically involved a few days prior to an election?
Must be fed their medicine inside of *something* sweet in between those elections; or, it isn't going be swallowed a'tall.
Not once the Liberal-Socialist's Lamestream has had the chance to first tell 'em how bitter that medicine's going to taste.
Not if the Liberal-Socialist's Lamestream can frame the issue, first, c?

"However, attaining Power for Power's sake is a Devil's Bargain if we willingly forfeit those anti-Big-Guv'ment Principles that I use to justify my passion..."

...and am perfectly willing to verbally-whup your butt if you did forfeit any one of the principles fueling your passion.
Because insodoing?
You'd essentially be telling me I'd failed in conveying the whole point of this matter; &, the way I believe this fight must be fought, IF we're going to win.

"...and I look for the day that the Bush Administration calls in all those chits he's apparently winning from the middle-of-the-roaders in exchange for these so-called 'compromises' on domestic policy."

;^)

...me too.

1,343 posted on 06/06/2002 10:41:46 AM PDT by Landru
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