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Former FBI Agent Dan Vogel Should Testify About the OKC Bombing
CBS 60 Minutes II, Daily Oklahoman, New American Magazine, Channel 8 Dallas ^ | May 9, 2002 | Patick B. Briley

Posted on 05/09/2002 12:19:54 AM PDT by OKCSubmariner

Copyright 2002 by Patrick B. Briley

Dan Vogel’s services at the OKC office of the FBI field office spanned more than two decades. Vogel was a public information spokesman for the FBI under FBI agent Bob Ricks during the time of the WACO siege and the OKC bombing.

When he first entered the FBI, Dan Vogel was sent to the FBI training center in Quantico, Virginia. Vogel first served starting in 1975 in the FBI Los Angeles Division in California where the FBI ran a program called CointellPro. The agent in charge in the California FBI office at the time was Ted Gunderson.

FBI agents were trained in CointellPro techniques at Quantico and in the California offices of the FBI during the 1960s well into the mid 1970s. A federal judge found in the Leonard Peltier case that the FBI continued CointellPro practices into 1978, beyond the 1975 time frame when Congress stepped in to stop CointellPro. After its investigation which began around 1972, Congress stepped in and limited the powers of the FBI because the CointellPro operations used illegal techniques to smear and discredit the reputations of law abiding American citizens (violated their civil rights) who were politically active and often critical of government policies.

After his retirement, the Daily Oklahoma reported that Dan Vogel was blocked by the DOJ from testifying at a pretrial hearing for Terry Nichols in Oklahoma. It was reported in the Daily Oklahoman that Vogel was to have testified about his receiving evidence in 1999 about Middle Eastern connections to the OKC bombing. The Daily Oklahoman also reported that Dan Vogel passed the Middle Eastern evidence on to others at the OKC FBI office.

Dan Vogel received the evidence of Middle eastern connections to the OKC bombing at a time when the FBI in OKC knew that the FBI in Dallas was investigating Middle Eastern individuals in Dallas, Texas who I believe, based on my own personal and independent research, were also connected to the OKC bombing.

Also at the same time Vogel received the Middle Eastern connection evidence in OKC, former OKC bombing inspector for the FBI, Danny Defenbaugh of the Dallas FBI office was using Dallas police officers to track AlQaeda , Hamas and Abu Nidal terrorists in and out of Dallas and across the world. This was reported by Valerie Williams of Channel 8 in Dallas in 1998 and 1999. I have the transcript of the Channel 8 broadcast and I spoke to Valerie Williams about the Channel 8 coverage in 1999. I also last week spoke to Byron Harris at Channel 8 who once again confirmed the Defenbaugh coverage by Channel 8. Harris did a story on Channel 8 about the Middle Eastern connections to the OKC bombing in March 2002. Channel 8’s coverage has been excellent and outstanding in my opinion.

Vogel appeared on the CBS program “60 Minutes II” in May 2001 along with several FBI agents from the OKC FBI field office. During the “60 Minutes II” program, Vogel and the other FBI agents raised doubts about the FBI handling of evidence during the investigation of the OKC bombing. And on the program Vogel said that he had observed situations during his career where he believed the civil rights of private citizens may have been violated by the FBI. It is not known whether or not Vogel was referring to possible civil rights violations that occurred both during the CointellPro operations and allegedly during the Waco and OKC bombing investigations.

CBS News went to court seeking permission from the FBI to allow Vogel to reveal more details to CBS and on the air about what Vogel knew about the FBI handling of evidence in the OKC bombing investigation. Vogel could have told CBS some information off the record that CBS could not broadcast until Vogel and CBS got legal approval. The Daily Oklahoma reported that CBS did not succeed with its legal action to get permission to use all of Dan Vogel’s information.

Vogel also has spoken to journalist William Jasper from the New American magazine on and off the record about the OKC bombing. I do not know the off the record details of the Jasper interview with Dan Vogel. I know William Jasper and have assisted him for seven years in collecting evidence for his articles on the OKC bombing and the Middle Eastern connection, including surveillance evidence of the Samir Khalil, the employer of the Iraqi suspect Al Hussain described by CIA counter terrorism expert LC Johnson on Fox’s O’Reilly factor on May 7, 2002. I have also spoken and corresponded with LC Johnson about my evidence of a Middle East connection to the OKC bombing. I also worked closely with the former Pentagon terror advisor Jesse Clear (who knows Johnson) from 1996 to 1999 collecting evidence of a Middle East connection on the OKC bombing.

I have posted several times a long letter to the editor of the in the September 1998 issue of the New American about the Middle Eastern connection for the OKC bombing. The letter describes a briefing Clear and I personally gave to the legal counsel for the Senate Judiciary Committee in 1997. Clear and Jasper worked jointly on the final draft of my letter before it was published and Clear permitted his name to be used in the my published letter.

Based on my conversations with Jasper and Jesse Clear, I believe Dan Vogel knows more than what he has even said on and off the record to William Jasper about the Middle Eastern connection to the OKC bombing. Vogel may be prepared to tell more about what he knows about OKC and Waco if he gets permission from the FBI or more importantly, if he gets to testify before Congressional hearings.

The list of people who are looking into having Dan Vogel testify before Congress and perhaps before courts is significant. The list includes but is not limited to Marc Chretian of Rep. Burton’s House Government Reform Committee and William Jasper of the New American magazine. Marc Chretian discussed Dan Vogel with me on the phone three weeks ago and I have reported this on the FreeRepublic several times in articles and replies. Chretain is one of the investigators collecting information on the Middle East connection to the OKC bombing for possible hearings by Burtons’ Committee

However, the public and Congress should know some more facts about Dan Vogel (which will be described in the remainder of this article) regardless if Dan Vogel ever testifies in court or before Congress. These facts presented below bear on the motives, credibility and accountability of Dan Vogel and should be weighed carefully.

If and when Dan Vogel does come forward to testify he should be required to testify fully and accurately about the additional facts presented below as well as all he knows about Waco, OKC and other FBI operations relevant to the safety of citizens from terrorist attacks and any FBI civil rights violations. His testimony should not be limited to just his verifying what has already been reported in the Daily Oklahoman and posted in articles on FreeRepublic (article by others besides me), namely, that Dan Vogel received and passed along evidence to the FBI about a Middle Eastern connection to the OKC bombing.

I spoke directly by phone to Dan Vogel at the OKC FBI office around 1 PM on April 21, 1995 two days after the OKC bombing at a time when the public was being asked on TV and radio to call the FBI about any information or leads they may have for the case.

Vogel may have taken my call by coincidence, as I did not ask to speak to him specifically. I explained to Vogel who I was which he acknowledged. My wife had taught his son English in a nearby high school and worked with his wife Dee at a department store for over ten years.

I got to tell Vogel about two sentences about my lead and information before he abruptly hung up the phone on me. I told Vogel that I knew of two witnesses who had seen a helicopter above the Murrah building at the time of the blast. That is as far as I got when Vogel said “You will not be hearing from the FBI on this one” and then he hung up. The call to Vogel by me was fully reported and described in OKC by the Mike McCarville radio program in 1997 and in 1998.

One of my witnesses includes a former Air Force Intelligence officer. I know that others besides me told the FBI in OKC about a third helicopter witness who is an expert on helicopters and who saw the helicopter under circumstances that indicate it was not a local TV helicopter in the area.

Regardless of who the helicopter belonged to, Dan Vogel and the FBI should in my opinion have followed up to learn what the occupants of the helicopter saw if they were innocent bystanders or were involved in the bombing somehow. Several years after the bombing and my conversation with Dan Vogel, OKC PD and K9 unit officer Don Browning has claimed he was told the helicopter was following the Ryder truck as part of an undercover operation.

Vogel needs to be asked about what he knows about the helicopter, its role and why he hung up on me and whether or not he did his job in having the FBI follow up on the eyewitness sightings of the helicopter.

The morning of the OKC bombing around 9:30 AM Dan Vogel’s wife Dee Vogel and the wife of FBI agent Jon Hersely, Christi Hersley held a conversation with my wife at a department store where they worked. The agents’ wives had just spoken to their husbands to make sure they were safe. The wives told my wife that their husbands had said the bombing was the result of the BATF botching Waco. How could they be so sure only thirty minutes after the bombing? The wives also said they were glad to learn that their husbands and other agents were told not to go to the Murrah building that morning on April 19, 1995. They said that normally several agents were in the Murrah building by 9 AM every day and sometimes dropped off children at the day care center.

I have confirmed from many witnesses (including the head of Federal Protective Services for the Murrah Building) that FBI agents were in fact regularly at the Murrah building at 9 AM (two minutes before the time of the bombing) to visit the DEA, the Secret Service, the Defense Investigative Services and the BATF and to attend court cases in the court house across the street. No FBI agents were at the Murrah Building at the time of the bombing and no FBI agents were reported injured directly by the bombing.

Two days later on April 21, 1995, Christi Hersley, who was my wife’s boss, sternly told my wife to forget what Christi Hersley and Dee Vogel had told my wife on the morning of the bombing. Christi Hersely also claimed that her husband and other agents never went to the Murrah Building, which was a false statement on Hersely’s part. My wife had not approached Christi Hersely or Dee Vogel to speak to them or ask them questions about their conversation on April 19, 1995. Christi Hersely sought out my wife on April 21, 1995 to warn my wife. Christi Hersley again tried to intimidate my wife with loss of employment in August 1998 to not talk about what the FBI agents wives had said to my wife on April 19, 1995. This happened shortly after it was publicly reported in the Daily Oklahoman that Jon Hersley, the senior FBI case agent for the OKC bombing, would testify before the Oklahoma County Grand Jury about the OKC bombing.

In January 1996, FBI agent John Carlisle came to our home in OKC under false pretenses and threatened me with imprisonment. Carlisle himself brought up the FBI agents’ wives story and warned me under the threat of imprisonment that there was nothing to the FBI wives story. In my opinion, Carlisle’s statements were false and meant to intimidate me and my wife.

Agent Carlisle also asked me questions about any associations with Dan Vogel. And Carlisle also brought up the illegal activities against me before the OKC bombing by another FBI agent Floyd Zimms who worked with Vogel for years in the OKC FBI office. Carlisle told me under his threat of imprisonment that there was nothing to my allegations about Zimms. In other words, in my opinion Carlisle was trying to tell me that I was to forget about doing anything about FBI agent Floyd Zimms

I believe Carlisle falsified his interview report with me. Sheriff Dave Kochendoerfer told me that Carlisle claimed he was in effect going to falsify his FBI interview report with Kochendoerfer about Congressman Istook and FBI forewarning of the OKC bombing. Carlisle worked for FBI agent White who has been reprimanded along with FBI inspector Danny Defenbaugh by DOJ Inspector General Glen Fine for mishandling OKC bombing evidence.

Dan Vogel should be asked about what his wife told my wife on April 19, 1995 about FBI forewarning. Vogel should be asked about what he knows about Carlisle and Christi Hersley threats over what Dee Vogel and Christi Hersley told my wife on April 19, 1995.. My wife and I are prepared to testify in court and before Congress under oath about the conversations Dee Vogel and Christi Hersley had with my wife as well as threats my wife and I received over the story by the FBI. This story about the FBI agents wives was told to the legal counsel for the Senate Intelligence Committee in 1999 by me on the phone and in writing.

We have learned that others told Dan Vogel my wife’s story in late 1995 even though we had asked them not to. We also later found out that Dan Vogel had been given evidence I had collected to Dan Vogel about another FBI agent Floyd Zimms who is alleged to have covered up the OKC bombing and transfers of technology to the Soviet Union under the Reagan and GHW Bush administrations.

My confidential information which should not have been given to Dan Vogel included information about the OKC FBI agent Tony Iela reading from Zimms files on me directly to my Congressman Mickey Edwards, in violation of Federal law. These files contained nothing but innuendo by Zimms to smear me because of my allegations. Also Zimms had personally been threatening to me at our church over conversations my wife and I had had with his wife and children several years before the OKC bombing. Vogel was in a position to know this information and he was made aware of much of it by others who should not have. Vogel also worked with Zimms at the FBI in OKC for many years during the same period of time theses incidents happened.

This story about Zimms and the improper use of his and the FBI files on me has been reported in at least five articles I wrote and posted on the going back two years to 2000. I wrote letters to the legal counsels for the Senate Intelligence (1999) and House Intelligence Committee (1991) about Zimms and the improper handling of files on me. The fact I wrote a letter to the House Intelligence Committee about these matters is also believed to have been made known to Dan Vogel. It was also made known to Vogels boss, Bob Ricks by Congressman Mickey Edwards office. I have letters from Mickey Edwards office documenting this.

In June 1996, I was called repeatedly by militia leaders John Trochman (Montana) and Ross Hullet (Oklahoma) to meet with them and FBI agents Dan Vogel and Pete Rickles in Tulsa to discuss the OKC bombing case. They asked me to stop my attempts to find attorneys to sue the FBI over the OKC bombing in exchange for a promise that Vogel and other FBI agents would hold a news conference discuss what the FBI did wrong in the OKC bombing case. I declined their offer and suggested they talk to Tulsa police officer Craig Roberts instead who had worked for the FBI on the case. They expressed anger when I told them I would not go to the meeting and suggested Roberts. I have never met Hullet or Trochman, I did not initiate contact with them and I have never attended any militia meetings.

Hullet had called me many times for almost a year after the bombing to tell me he was close to Dan Vogel and thought Vogel was a great guy and that I should talk with Vogel. I told Hullet I did not trust Dan Vogel because of what Vogel wife had told my wife, because of Carlisle’s threats and because of Vogel hanging up the phone on me about the helicopter sighting. But Hullet still persisted. I told Hullet that Dan Vogel did not need me to come forward for Vogel to reveal what the FBI had done wrong in the OKC bombing case. And I predicted Vogel and Rickles would not hold a news conference or come forward even though they allegedly met with Hullet and Trochman in Tulsa..

I suspected that the meeting was designed as an attempt to discredit me and to thwart my efforts to have litigation started in the case against the FBI and DOJ. And I reported this as it was ongoing to Bill Jasper of the New American and to the former Pentagon terror advisor Jesse Clear who both agreed with my decision to not attend the meeting in Tulsa.

I learned from BATF agent testimony during the Tulsa trial of BATF informant Carol Howe that FBI agent Pete Rickles had allegedly setup Howe in a way that could have gotten her killed by Rickles’ deliberately blowing her cover. This was all going on while according to trial testimony Rickles was maintaining a database on militia members throughout the US and while the FBI was using informants like John Parsons, Trochman and Hullet in the militias. And Rickles was the man who was supposed to meet with me in Tulsa to discuss the OKC bombing. I was concerned for my safety and I strongly doubted the trustworthiness and motives of FBI agents Rickles and Vogel especially in view of what is known about what Rickles is alleged to have done to jeopardize Carol Howe’s safety.

Dan Vogel needs to be asked if, in fact, he was involved in or knew about a meeting in Tulsa with Rickles and Hullet in June 1996 and if he had offered to come forward with other agents in a news conference to talk about FBI failures in the bombing. If this is true, were the alleged Vogel offers sincere then or part of an attempt to discredit me? This is important now because once again Dan Vogel is being considered to testify in the Nichols trial and before Congress.

In July 1996, a month after I had rejected the proposed meeting with Vogel, an FBI counter terrorism agent Paul Geiger, interviewed Pentagon terror advisor Jesse Clear at his home in Vienna, Virginia specifically about me, Pat Briley. Geiger was with the FBI counter terrorism task force unit #3 at Buzzard’s Point near Washington DC. Clear recorded the conversation with Geiger, gave me a copy of the tape and also took a copy of the tape to my Senator, James Inhofe of Oklahoma.

In my opinion, the tape reveals a failed attempt by Geiger to dig up dirt on me, to discredit and smear me even further. The interview also disgusted Clear and this is why he said he took the tape to Inhofe’s office to complain. Geiger wanted to know all the people I was talking to and working with around the country on the investigation of the OKC bombing. Geiger’s tone was hostile and was not justified since I had committed no crimes and was not being reviewed for a security clearance at the time.

I spoke to Inhofe at his home in January 1999 about the letter his staff had written to the FBI about the taped interview held with Clear and FBI agent Geiger. I also complained to Senator Inhofe about FBI agent James Carlisle’s threats against my wife and me in our home over the FBI agents’ wives story. And I discussed with Inhofe a letter written by Inhofe’s chief of staff Herb Johnson. In his letter, Johnson stated the head of the FBI command post in OKC had told Johnson the week of the bombing that the DOJ wanted the FBI to keep information about a Middle Eastern connection from the public. I presented this same information to the legal counsel for the Senate Intelligence Committee in the Spring of 1999 with the assistance of Jesse Clear. The legal counsel for the Senate Intelligience Committee apologized to me for the treatment my wife and I had received but the counsel also could not assure me ( when I asked) that the bad treatment would stop. Inhofe gave me no assurances either about what he would do about my allegations of FBI misconduct. Inhofe has not contacted me to this day to follow up. S he told me he would.

The sequence of events and timing of the FBI threats and interviews is significant particularly because they relate not only to the cover-up of the OKC bombing by the FBI but also to FBI agent Dan Vogel’s activities. Once again consider the chain of events. An FBI agent threatens me in my house over my wife’s conversation with Vogel’s wife and the agent also asks me questions about Vogel. Then a possible attempted setup of me occurs via a proposed meeting with Vogel in Tulsa in June 1996. And when I reject the meeting, FBI agent Geiger shows up a month later at Clear’s residence trying to dig up dirt on me.

Was the FBI trying to protect Dan Vogel and the FBI covering up of the OKC bombing by all these activities against me in 1996? And what did Inhofe and the Senate Intelligence Committee legal counsel actually do to stop these activities against me by the FBI - nothing that I am aware of or was ever told about. I feel betrayed and I believe our country has been betrayed.

Because of what may have been attempted with me by Vogel and Rickles and the inadequate actions of Inhofe and the Senate Intelligence Committee legal counsel, those who believe in Vogel’s sincerity need to fully investigate his past conduct and the possibility that he and the FBI and DOJ could have another agenda with Congress and the public.

On one hand, it could be in the interest of the current administration to have Dan Vogel discuss the possible Middle East connection including Iraq with the OKC bombing to justify military action against Iraq which should have been considered seven years ago.

But on the other hand, it would also be in the interest of the FBI and DOJ to use the Iraqi connection as a justifiable diversion to not talk about and to disguise the FBI foreknowledge, use of informants and provocateurs, perjury, intimidation of witnesses and falsification of evidence concerning the involvement of domestic John Does along with Middle Eastern John Does in the bombing. I have written 30 articles on this subject and all the articles have been posted on and widely read since 2000.

And it is not certain yet whether or not a chief Iraqi suspect in the bombing could also have been an FBI/CIA informant who was brought back to the US from Iraq by GHW Bush after the Gulf War. It is a fact of history that GHW Bush approved bringing Al Hussaini along with the other Iraqis to the US after the Gulf War and this has been repeatedly reported on in many articles written and posted by many others besides me. I did original work in late April 1995 to uncover this fact which has since been confirmed by many others including my friend William Jasper and the Pentagon terror advisor Jesse Clear.

The FBI and Dan Vogel have known about (but have not taken action against or interrogated) the Iraqi suspect Al Hussaini in detail for over seven years even before the time the Daily Oklahoman has reported that Dan Vogel received evidence of the Middle East connection in January 1999. I personally was involved, through my efforts with the Senate Intelligence Committee, in helping make it possible for the evidence of the Middle Eastern Connection I had helped in part to obtain with Clear and Jasper to be given to Dan Vogel in January 1999. And the FBI showed witnesses in Newkirk, Oklahoma in early May 1995 sketches of a Middle East suspect looking like AL Hussaini with Nichols on April 18, 1995 with a Ryder truck. I reported this in an article I wrote and posted on on April 18 and 19, 2002.

Vogel worked in the OKC FBI office with and knew other FBI agents alleged to have covered up the OKC bombing including, but not limited to Bob Ricks, Floyd Zimms, Jon Hersely, Danny Defenbaugh, Mark White, and James Carlisle. Vogel was in a position to observe and know about some details of alleged FBI misconduct by these agents along with alleged misconduct of FBI assistant deputy directors Larry Potts, Danny Coulson and Weldon Kennedy who also went through the OKC FBI office at one time or another.

I have reported (based on my own personal investigations) in over seven articles on the since 2000 that FBI agent Floyd Zimms allegedly brow beat a witness knowing of a Middle Eastern connection, falsified an interview report with the witness, and put out false information to OKC police officers, false information which covered up the arrest of Middle East suspects in OKC and Dallas who later were released under questionable circumstances. I have written about allegations concerning the OKC bombing against Ricks, Potts, Kennedy, and Coulson extensively in articles on

Because of Vogel’s access to these FBI agents and his being in a position to observe their conduct, Vogel should be asked in court and in Congressional hearings to tell all he knows about FBI conduct in the OKC bombing and Waco, not just whether or not he received evidence of a Middle Eastern connection of the bombing almost four years after the bombing.

Dan Vogel was in a position to tell what he knows about the FBI policy of tracking known Middle Eastern terrorists from Abu Nidal, AlQaeda and Hamas through OKC and Dallas for years including but not limited to Mohammed Atta, Ali Mohammed and possibly the employer and coworkers of the Iraqi Al Hussaini in OKC. Vogel would also know about the Hamas cell and Iraqi mob that has been and is still being allowed to operate in OKC for at least eight years including some of those who planned the 1993 and subsequent attacks on the World Trade Centers.

In 1995 and 1996, Dan Vogel gave slide presentations and talks to business leaders in Oklahoma City at conferences sponsored by the Oklahoma State Employment Service. I obtained copies of slides from these presentations. I was told by someone in attendance at the presentation that he found the information presented by Vogel in these slides as personally objectionable. That someone provide me a copy of Dan Vogel’s resume and a copy of the slide presentation.

What made the slides objectionable is that the slides contained profiles or a list of characteristics including religious and political beliefs, the FBI was using (similar to what has been revealed in Arizona FBI offices over the years) to identify people the FBI considered as having a high risk of committing crimes and acts of violence. The message in these presentations seemed also to be that these same types of people should be considered as high risk by the employers at Vogel’s presentations.

Many people who would fall under the profiles Vogel was presenting could also easily be law abiding and innocent citizens who were politically active, believed in gun rights, served in the military, may be unemployed, did not believe in homosexuality or abortion on demand. Left wing bureaucrats who had politicized the FBI and DOJ under Clinton could easily have used the profiles presented by Vogel to discredit and destroy the reputations and livelihood of innocent Americans who disagreed in legal ways with the positions of the left wing agenda.

The effect of Vogel’s slides and presentations to the employers could easily have been the discrediting of current employees who had these profile characteristics. Also the slides could have led to the unfair discouragement of employers not to hire new employees with the FBI profile characteristics. The net effect could have been to destroy actual and prospective employees economically and politically without any trial or hard evidence.

The slide show presentation is reminiscent of the activities used by the FBI in California against political dissidents (who committed no crimes) during the CointellPro operations out of the FBI office in California where Dan Vogel once worked and started out as an FBI agent in 1975. The attributes of Dan Vogel’s slide presentation reflected CointellPro tactics in my opinion regardless of whether or not Vogel was ever directly involved in CointellPro operations. And once again, Dan Vogel served under those in the FBI in California who at one time were directly involved in CointellPro. And Dan Vogel would have likely received training from the FBI about CointellPro techniques back in 1975. I strongly believe a lot of evidence clearly shows that the FBI agent training, techniques and mindset of CointellPRo persisted in the FBI for years after Congress stopped CointellPro and likely still does.

If Dan Vogel really has a sincere conscience about the items described in this article, he should demonstrate it by telling all he knows about these entire matters not just one limited item. He may still want to preserve his pension and retirement. Vogel’s possible desire to protect his pension may, in part, also be why he wants to get permission to talk even though the permission may not be granted unless Congress gets involved. But Dan Vogel should also be held accountable for any possible acts of his own misconduct if he has committed any. He may want to limit his testimony because of his concerns about being held accountable for any possible misconduct on his part.

I say that Vogel should be held accountable with full questioning by Congress and the courts and not just by the FBI and DOJ.If Dan Vogel has not done anything wrong he should testify. And if Dan Vogel has done anything wrong he still should be required to testify.

Any FBI agent who may have broken the law in the OKC bombing should be held accountable and convicted just as any other citizen who breaks the law. Conviction of FBI agents for any crimes is necessary not as revenge, but is necessary to set an example and a standard of what is right and wrong before the law. Sentencing of any convicted FBI agent can be ameliorated by taking into account extenuating circumstances and help to uncover wrongdoing by any other FBI agents.

FBI Crime lab specialist Frederick Whitehurst blew the whistle on corruption in the FBI crime lab in Washington DC. Whitehurst specifically named the FBI agents who were corrupt and what they had done. Whitehurst was vindicated by the DOJ IG report on the FBI crime lab. Some of the FBI agents Whitehurst reported on had lied under oath at the Nichols and McVeigh trials and had falsified and fabricated evidence and their own tests and improperly compared and changed their testimonies from one trial to the next.

Dan Vogel is in a position to act as another Frederick Whitehurst by revealing what Dan Vogel may know about corruption in the handling of the OKC bombing by the OKC FBI filed office, the FBI headquarters in DC and by the DOJ. Dan Vogel has already himself raised his own questions about the FBI handling of the OKC bombing investigation in his 2001 interview with CBS “60 Minutes II”. I believe Dan Vogel should come forward and tell Congress and the courts all that he knows regardless of whether or not he, Dan Vogel, has or has not committed any crimes while in the FBI.

Dan Vogel must tell all and adequately account for what I have written about in this article before Congress, the American public, and my family should ever fully trust what Dan Vogel does say. Dan Vogel could help save the country and act nobly like Fredrick Whitehurst. And if Dan Vogel ever did anything wrong, his testimony could also help ameliorate any sentence handed down should he ever be convicted. And Dan Vogel can also be given immunity for his testimony.

And no FBI agents should be allowed to avoid conviction for committing any possible crimes by pleading the Nuremberg defense of following unlawful orders from DOJ officials or FBI supervisors. FBI agents can be given immunity in many cases and be protected by whistle blower laws, but their testimony is vital and necessary for protecting and maintaining the integrity of the Federal law enforcement and Judicial system.

Copyright 2002 by Patrick B. Briley

TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial
KEYWORDS: fredthompson; okcbombing
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1 posted on 05/09/2002 12:19:54 AM PDT by OKCSubmariner
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To: B4Ranch,MizSterious,honway,Wallaby,Uncle Bill, Fred Mertz,Prodigal Daughter,Marianne,carenot
2 posted on 05/09/2002 12:21:20 AM PDT by OKCSubmariner
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To: Betty Jo,nunya bidness,honway
3 posted on 05/09/2002 12:25:16 AM PDT by OKCSubmariner
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To: *OKCbombing

4 posted on 05/09/2002 12:25:30 AM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP
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To: OKCSubmariner
WOW, this is a powerful read!

Out of curiosity, what's your take on the involvement of McVeigh & Nichols? Were they a couple of framed hayseeds, or were they lured into participating in this abomination?
5 posted on 05/09/2002 12:43:54 AM PDT by demkicker
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6 posted on 05/09/2002 12:55:21 AM PDT by Michael Barnes
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To: OKCSubmariner;Joe Montana
7 posted on 05/09/2002 4:14:28 AM PDT by Donald Stone
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

To: quimby,Ronneil,zog,rwz,Squantos,backhoe,lawdog,archy
9 posted on 05/09/2002 10:23:43 AM PDT by OKCSubmariner
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To: OKCSubmariner
Keep it up !
10 posted on 05/09/2002 11:38:51 AM PDT by Betty Jo
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To: OKCSubmariner;black jade;aristeides;fred Mertz;Wallaby;Ann Archy;backhoe;archy;Nita Nupress
The Larry Johnson that you mention above was on FOXNEWS earlier this afternoon commenting on another topic, Atta and Prague.

Another talking head that you know,Laurie Myloire was on FOX John Gibson at 5:00PM eastern today talking about the invasion plan for Iraq.

As you know, both of these people have recently been on FOXNEWS speaking to the Iraq connection to the OKC Murrah Bombing!

Oakie, I dont know how much of what you say is right, but I guess its about 99.9 % on the money! Keep up the good work!

11 posted on 05/09/2002 3:27:42 PM PDT by Betty Jo
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To: OKCSubmariner; Alamo-Girl
Also at the same time Vogel received the Middle Eastern connection evidence in OKC, former OKC bombing inspector for the FBI, Danny Defenbaugh of the Dallas FBI office was using Dallas police officers to track AlQaeda , Hamas and Abu Nidal terrorists in and out of Dallas and across the world. This was reported by Valerie Williams of Channel 8 in Dallas in 1998 and 1999. I have the transcript of the Channel 8 broadcast and I spoke to Valerie Williams about the Channel 8 coverage in 1999. I also last week spoke to Byron Harris at Channel 8 who once again confirmed the Defenbaugh coverage by Channel 8. Harris did a story on Channel 8 about the Middle Eastern connections to the OKC bombing in March 2002. Channel 8’s coverage has been excellent and outstanding in my opinion

We know of at least one matter that David Koresh had investigated in hopes of keeping the BATF from causing him any further legal problems after he was found not guilty in his first court case: the BATF [then called ATTU] involvement in the JFK investigation in Dallas in November of 1963.

I wonder if the involvement and direction of Middle Eastern terrorists by FBI/BATF personnel, either as a rogue operation or under orders from Washington, would have been a further matter of inquiry for him. It would certainly explain why Koresh had to be killed on the spot before he could ever reach a courtroom, along with as many of the witnesses to whom he might have spilled the beans, and why the structures and any documentation he had gathered had to be burned to the ground.


12 posted on 05/09/2002 4:02:17 PM PDT by archy
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To: archy; OKCSubmariner
Thank you so much for sharing the theory, archy!

And thank you for all the information, OKCSubmariner!

I still lean to the WMD theory as the best fit for the evidence at Waco; however, it appears to me that there was ME involvement in OKC and it needs to be fully explored - especially in light of the current war on terrorism.

13 posted on 05/09/2002 7:25:41 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: OKCSubmariner
An excellent article. Thanks for this post.
14 posted on 05/10/2002 9:54:48 AM PDT by honway
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To: demkicker


"A classified report prepared by two independent Pentagon experts has concluded that the destruction of the federal building in Oklahoma City last April was caused by five separate bombs. The two experts reached the same conclusion for the same technical reasons.

Sources close to the Pentagon study say Timothy McVeigh did play a role in the bombing but peripherally, as a "useful idiot." The multiple bombings have a Middle Eastern "signature," pointing to either Iraqi or Syrian involvement."

The quote is from an article in the 3-20-1996 Strategic Investment Newsletter. At the time, William Colby, former CIA Director, was an editor for the publication. I believe his status as editor contributes to the credibility of the article.

Maybe the Pentagon Report had it right back in 1996. Not much else was said about the report after Colby died in a canoe accident four weeks after the above article appeared in his newsletter.

15 posted on 05/10/2002 10:01:45 AM PDT by honway
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To: honway
After reading several reports about the OKC Bombing, it's glaringly obvious that McVeigh and Nichols weren't the only two involved in the bombing. Since McVeigh has been killed before this sinister plot is revealed, I wonder if Nichols will be able to shed further light before he's silenced forever by the needle?

For instance, unless Nichols and McVeigh were in cahoots with others, how does anyone explain the perfect timing of other bombs exploding simultaneously with their fertilizer bomb? If McVeigh and Nichols were indeed working alone and oblivious to other involvement, it's a stretch to believe that Big Brother was monitoring them closely enough that the blasts triggered at once.

I find it hard to believe that McVeigh & Nichols acted alone. IMO, they've been threatened into silence, ala Jack Ruby. There's no doubt that Big Brother is out there listening and often murdering, but the timing on this one reeks of a conspiracy between McVeigh, Nichols and one or more people they trusted. I seriously doubt we'll ever know the real truth. That's my take....
16 posted on 05/11/2002 6:35:54 AM PDT by demkicker
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To: archy;alamo-girl
If Koresh knew something about ME terrorists (or anything else), why not take him out directly? Or was somebody trying to get two birds with one stone?

Similarly, what changed in the middle of April that the decision to go in with the tanks was made? The only thing that comes to mind is the Davidians were almost out of water and would have to come out.

17 posted on 05/13/2002 12:08:57 PM PDT by Tymesup
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To: demkicker
I think there was discussion on other threads that perhaps McVeigh's bomb triggered the other bombs and that they weren't simultaneous.
18 posted on 05/13/2002 12:10:30 PM PDT by Tymesup
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To: Tymesup
I believe Waco was "taken down" in the manner that it was because they had no other choice - i.e. Koresh and a select few had WMDs and will to use them. There are many reasons for this, one of which you noted - here's another:

St. Louis Post-Dispatch 1/29/2000 Terry Ganey "..... Most chilling of all, Sgt. Barry reports: "Their operators had penetrated the building on several occasions, and on one occasion, late April 17 or early on the 18th, they saw Koresh within six feet of them. They radioed back to the Tactical Operations Center for permission to grab him, and within minutes the word came back from the Justice Department, 'No, we already have a plan in place,' that being what happened on April 19." ..." The joint chiefs were contacted on March 2nd with a document marked "secret specat." Six days later, top secret robots were sent to Waco. They already had the complex bugged for voice, so I suspect the top secret robots had a different function, something relating to detecting WMDs.

As you noted, they began flash-banging the people who were trying to leave, put up concertina wire and began monitoring the water.

The April 14th second briefing with Reno (who has a degree in Chemisty) included Dr Harry Salem chief scientist for life sciences at the U.S. Army Chemical Biological Defense Command, Col Boykin of Delta Force and Gen. Schoomarker, who had once headed the Army's secret anti-terrorist unit Delta Force and was later at the U.S. Special Forces Command at Macdill Air Force Base in Florida.

19 posted on 05/14/2002 7:49:10 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
gosh alamo-girl, you've done so much research, we're so glad you share it here, so that we can catch a clue; I think you've nailed the motivation on Waco. This extra fact that Dr. Salem was included in the meeting of April 14 with Reno certainly backs up that theory.

But let me say this about OKC, we have so much evidence that there were multiple bombs, including 2 yellow truck bombs and other bombs inside the building strapped to columns that all went up together. If you have significant education in physics and structural engineering you understand right away that 1 yellow truck bomb ten feet from the building couldn't possibly have done that damage as the force of the explosion dissipates so quickly with distance. And then we have the photographic evidence that shows the pattern of damage in some spots could only have occurred due to a bomb placed on the column in the building. There was 1 engineering firm in California, another in Oklahoma and others who have looked at this and concluded it to be ridiculous that 1 yellow truck bomb caused this damage. Yet our media sticks with the fiction.

There is only one conclusion. We live in a fascist country where lies are normal, where our media go along with the lies, where policemen harass those who try to tell the truth and where our people bury their heads in the sand out of cowardice.

This is an atmosphere where great evil can thrive.

20 posted on 05/14/2002 9:05:18 AM PDT by Red Jones
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