The Arafat Apologists

Sierra Times ^ | Marti Stapp

[Cachelot]

I would laud Cachelot's having the stones to use this tactic out in the open

You mean the "tactic" of letting people's words speak for themselves, Askel? And this byzantine hide-and-seek thing, would that be you taking internal discussions from this board over to a group of helpers on another board? Just curious :).

[Sir Gawain]

I don't think it is much of a stretch to extrapolate that into a frowning on bringing arguments from whole other websites to here.

If it's relevant to the current discussion, I don't see a problem with it. That's different than carrying a different argument from another thread onto a new thread.

[Chunga]

" If you create a new generation of kids who hate you, you will have decades of hate before the new generation can trust you!"

Of course the Israelis aren't creating a new generation of hate-filled Palestinians. The responsibility lies at the feet of mullahs, clerics, dictators, their respective propoganda organs and parents who teach their children the glories of martyrdom.

Palestinians have historically been better-treated in Israel than they have in the Arab nations in the region. Never underestimate ingratitude. It can blossom into murder.

[Askel5]

In the course of my "internal discussions" I made mention of the fact that I would be trying to find additional information to buttress my position and flesh out the questions I had.

Because some of those then banned to date had ended up at LF and managed to remain somewhat adult (some more than others) about the subject of FR, I sought information there.

Such a thread would have never lasted here and would have been of little use since folks would have had to break the rules by assuming another identity to post in and I would have only exacerbate the ongoing wound on the ZION_IST threads. I doubt it would have stayed up for even a day. Quite in contrast to the way the LF post netted me a few responses, a few emails and died on the vine.

Either way, it ended up a moot point when internal discussions were closed.

I'm just as up front on other sites as I am here. One telltale sign is the way I -- like Zviadist -- stick to the same handle I chose on FR 4 years ago no matter where I go. Because you've read the thread, you know good and well that I was not about to tolerate any FR bashing or innuendo -- that was not the point of the thread -- I simply wanted to get an idea of how many and for what reason folks were banned on the Middle East threads.

Why? Because I've NEVER seen such one-sided carnage in all the time I've been here.

As a Catholic who prefers that the Catholic-bashing stand in all its ugliness for everyone to see, as a Catholic who is confident I've the patience and logic and objective truth necessary to handle my own business ... I'm not into either playing the victim card or engaging in the predatory behavior that is psychoanalyzing or trailing my opponents in an effort to build a sustainable claim of Insanity or Hate Crime with which to get them silenced.

I don't waste a lot of my time anymore trying to fight the good fight on these threads. It's not so much a fear of being banned as it is a real distaste for watching you all in action. Folks so "faithful" they have every confidence in their Divine claim to Israel (which claim is to be respected irregardless of another's belief in God or the Jews own obedience to His law) yet so hateful they can engage in the practice of Dehumanization ... the very tactic by which countless Jews have been persecuted, tortured and killed as somehow Subhuman for centuries.

Your actions and words are inconsistent. Anyone who pays any attention at all knows you are not defending (by reasoned argument or Witness) the righteousness of Israel so much as you are bulldozing a conduit for continued one-sided coverage of a conflict of flashpoint proportions sufficient to set fire to the world.

[philosofy123]

You are correct. However, I still think that violance from the ragheads can be passified by a leader as Perez.

[Askel5]

By the rules of this website, Zviadist's second comment doesn't even belong in this forum but rather is a subject for discussion in the Religion forum.

I find it interesting that Cachelot (whose State of Israel is premised on God's exclusive promise to the Jews and a matter of faith for them which the whole world must respect) not only does not respect Zviadist's faith but uses it to try and impugn him as somehow dishonest and hateful.

[Sir Gawain]

In any case, I won't lose sleep over it.

[philosofy123]

I agree with you, the ragheads never in the past or in the future are willing to accept Israel. But Israel must live in this area with them. Do you forget about even temporary peace, like the one you have with Egypt? Do you think the Egyptians accept you?

You must be above these savages, and look for ways to have coexistence and reduction of tension.

[yianni]

Oderint, dum metuant!

[Nuke'm Glowing]

Add to the list of apologists the allegedly "Christian" organization Worldvision. On ABC radio's national update at the bottom of the last hour, one of their representatives alleged that the "poor, pathetic Palestenians" were forced to drink sewer water. Worldvision officially went on my list of "go to hell" when they call for solicitations. And I'm informing my preacher that if one dime of our church's money goes to the TransJordanians, I'm quitting the church. I'm tired of everyone hating the Israelis.

[Chunga]

"However, I still think that violance from the ragheads can be passified by a leader as Perez."

The Palestinians won't be pacified until they are thoroughly subdued, crushed and humiliated or Israel is destroyed.

[Cachelot]

I'm just as up front on other sites as I am here.

Are you now? So, on one site you're telling folks that you're trying to keep people from being banned (and perhaps get the bannes back in again - coincidentally, mostly bizarrely antisemitic bannees). Then you come here and approach some of the Jewish posters about the same kind of information and help you were soliciting on the other board, now ostensibly "to keep banned posters from slipping in again".

This is rather stupid behaviour, Askel.

[Askel5]

In any case, I won't lose sleep over it.

My continued harping on the subject is in direct proportion to my continued respect for the integrity of this site.

While I still have a voice, I'll continue to err on the side of letting folks present their arguments in the most above-board fashion possible and letting others -- as if they had brains or something -- decide for themselves.

If out of context quotes and "guilt by association" were actually sound foundations for stripping a person of his integrity, I doubt very seriously so many folks around here would get away with replying "BUSH HATER!" every time his duplicity, lies or inexplicable chumminess with the likes of Ted Kennedy were proffered for review and comment.

[Cachelot]

I find it interesting that Cachelot (whose State of Israel is premised on God's exclusive promise to the Jews and a matter of faith for them which the whole world must respect) not only does not respect Zviadist's faith but uses it to try and impugn him as somehow dishonest and hateful.

I'll just catch that one too if you don't mind.

I called Zviadist a "terrorist supporter". He responded with the assertion that I don't know the first thing about him.

However, his post places him smack dab in the middle of what we all know and dislike as Christian Identity or one of its variants - the belief that some other group is really God's chosen people, or even Israel itself. These groups are terrorist supporters (Butler has a real softspot for the Taliban), and some of them are themselves terrorist groups. If you do a quick search of these terms "Christian Identity", "Aryan Nations" or "Rahowa", you should be able to make the connection without too much strain.

[Sir Gawain]

Market economics will make sure this site stays on a correct path.

[jo6pac]

Non illegitimus carborundum.

[Zviadist]

However, his post places him smack dab in the middle of what we all know and dislike as Christian Identity or one of its variants

You are blinded by your own hatred and bigotry. My post reflects the mainstream view of the Roman Catholic Church (one billion people) and 95 percent of the Protestant churches. Your hatred for Christians is such that any explanation of mainstream Christian views is, to you, "Aryan nations" or "Christian Identity." And anyway, YOU are the one who brought it up.

If anyone behaves like a "stormfront" type it is you, who desperately scours the Internet looking for dirt on people who disagree with you, in attempt to get them banned. That is not something that pro-Constitution conservatives generally support.

Perhaps you need to think about whether you are on the right site here. I would suggest having a look at Jim Robinson's mission statement. Nowhere does it say that it is the mission of this site to slog through the internet looking for ways to assassinate the character of conservatives.

[Zviadist]

I called Zviadist a "terrorist supporter".

Ironically, you called me a "terrorist supporter" in response to a post I made expressing my admiration for much of the work done by the Anti-Defamation League.

[Askel5]

So, on one site you're telling folks that you're trying to keep people from being banned

On ALL sites. I'm not naive. Any site that becomes as popular as FR has become is fair game for thread cleansers. Can't hurt to bang the drum in favor of Free Speech at all times and in all places. Any site that meets with success will most certainly meet with the same headaches this site's endured.

(and perhaps get the bannes back in again -

I've bemoaned certain losses but never tried to reinstate someone. Why? It's like opining on someone's marriage break-up. I don't pretend to know all the facts and -- regardless my utter respect for many now gone -- I don't pretend to "know" folks I've been reading for years, even.

(This would be in direct contrast to your and others' ability to divine identities, deep-seated psychological disorders, and the masked "hate" of others, natch.)

coincidentally, mostly bizarrely antisemitic bannees).

Yes ... can we have a thread sometime where you and others who so cavalierly toss about this label detail for the rest of us what exactly it is you're liable to perceive as "anti-semitic"?

Then you come here and approach some of the Jewish posters about the same kind of information

You brought Nix2's banishment to my attention. When I realized she wasn't actually banned, I inquired as to whether it had been a misunderstanding, admitting that it was none of my business, but curious as to whether or not she'd actually been suspended.

This was not a great deal different from Lent's asking me on the forum whether or not I'd ever been suspended or banned. Does he really care whether I continue to post? Probably not. Is he interested in what sort of things will get a person suspended? Very possibly.

and help you were soliciting on the other board, now ostensibly "to keep banned posters from slipping in again".

Total fantasy on your part. It's not my purview whether or not banned posters slip back in again or not. (Although I have been known to hit the abuse button and flag Jim/John in years past when Eschoir still posted in.)

As that is neither my responsibility nor my concern, it's been absolutely immaterial to my interest.

My interest is in having a forum where folks act like adults and manage to disagree without getting violent or running to the authorities to have this or that person silenced.

I am not only revulsed by anti-semitism but any form of prejudice or dehumanization whereby a human being or a group of human beings is deemed somehow less than human and a suitable object for hate, suspicion and extermination based solely on their nationality, skin, race or stage in development. I will be in your corner so fast it will make your head spin the day I detect that sickening and untenable sort of behavior.

Unfortunately, as it stands, you have deconstructed "anti-semitism" down to whatever gets your own nose out of joint and -- more often than not -- the hateful and often subtly insidious shades of genuine anti-semitism would not be a great deal different than that you use to castigate folks like Zviadist or encourage the dehumanization of all Palestianians as human vermin fit only for genocide.

[MHGinTN]

Israel appears ready to create something that has never existed previously to Israel becoming a modern nation ... a Palestinian nation! Oh, but I don't think the current Pali behavior --sending suicide children to kill as many Israeli civilians as they can-- stands them in good stead to join the family of nations. My feeling is, the issue should be tabled for another twenty years; perhaps the Jordanians and Syrians will rethink their previous rejection of the Palestinian peoples. It is interesting to note that the Syrian brutality in dealing with the Pali insurrection of by-gone days has led to the Palis spitting at Israel rather than get their butts slaughtered trying to wage revolution against the Syrian strongman.