For nonviolence to make good sense, there can be no violent people that interact with the nonviolent ones. If there are, guess who ends up on top?
If we have no guns, who will protect us from those with guns? 
Posted on 03/29/2002 4:40:16 AM PST by TroutStalker
My wife, Valerie, and I didn't find out until later that people we had invited into our home for the first time for dinner had carried a gun with them for "protection."
One of our daughters or their friends could have stumbled over the woman's purse where the gun lay concealed on the family-room floor. A curious child could have picked up the firearm and discharged it, hurting or killing someone.
The male guest said the woman he was with carried the gun for protection. The questions that lingered in my mind are from whom were our guests protecting themselves and what had made them so afraid?
No good answers came to mind then or when the Missouri House last week approved a bill that would allow residents to keep concealed firearms in their vehicles.
I don't expect the Republican-controlled state Senate to bravely vote down this measure and resist the cash-larded lobbyists for the National Rifle Association.
I'm counting on Missouri Gov. Bob Holden's sensible veto to keep people in this state safe. A veto would uphold the public's mandate of three years ago.
Despite a multimillion-dollar pro-gun campaign, voters defeated the ballot measure known as Proposition B. Prop B would have let people legally carry concealed weapons. Nothing indicates that the voters have changed their minds, though the legislature seems not to notice. More weapons on the road will make people more fearful and less safe.
Firearms advocates say the ballot proposal won a majority in 104 of the state's 114 counties. But the more heavily populated urban areas of St. Louis and Kansas City ensured Prop B's defeat.
Gun proponents have returned, this time to claim that the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and a public sense of "personal vulnerability" are behind the latest push for concealed weapons legislation in Missouri. I don't doubt it.
High above Missouri roads are passenger airliners, where many pilots say they also need firearms in their cockpits "for protection." Unlike guests entering homes or motorists, airplane passengers are thoroughly searched. So is their luggage.
But that's not enough for pilots. Flight attendants will settle for stun guns. The consequences of firearms discharging in pressurized cabins would be dire.
If the concealed-weapons bill passes in the General Assembly, vehicles being searched before they can be parked at Missouri's major airports will likely have guns that people forgot about.
What would folks rushing on the highway to airports do when the realization hits them? Grab the gun from the glove box and toss the weapon out the window to keep from missing a flight?
It sounds farfetched, but I used to think the same thing about the possibility of someone carrying a gun into my home. But these are meaner times. Too often people view others as the enemy instead of fellow human beings.
I also fear the globalization of weapons' use as problem-solving tools. Examples are the war in Afghanistan, the escalating violence between the Israelis and Palestinians and the threat of a new war in Iraq.
President Bush doesn't make people feel less vulnerable and more safe by labeling North Korea, Iran and Iraq an "axis of evil." Bush also said he'd use nuclear weapons against an enemy thought to be preparing to use weapons of mass destruction.
Attorney General John Ashcroft's actions also are perplexing. Ashcroft has refused to allow the FBI access to records to determine whether any of the hundreds of people held since the Sept. 11 tragedy have bought guns.
Ashcroft has been a gun-rights proponent since elected to offices in Missouri. The Second Amendment guaranteeing people the right to bear arms goes untouched under Ashcroft while other civil liberties are trounced in this climate of fear of terrorism.
Thank goodness Holden is our governor and not Ashcroft, who used to be. Ashcroft's shielding the Second Amendment while gutting the rest of the Bill of Rights makes about as much sense as guests carrying a gun into our home. It makes as much sense as Missouri lawmakers passing a concealed-weapons bill after voters said "no way."
Nonviolence makes good sense, too, locally and globally.
He has grossly exaggerated the effect of a punctured fuselage at even 35,000 feet. They ALREADY leak like sieves and require that pressure be maintained via continuous turbine bleed air. The pressure would probably drop, the masks would deploy and be put into use while the guys up front took it down to 12K or below for breathable air and higher outside air pressures. And such holes MIGHT even be automatically plugged with some loose cabin items that might be sucked into them. If not, plugs could include the hijackers’ penises since THEY would certainly have no further need of them.
And here's something he conveniently overlooked: IF a flight crewman is called upon to do the shooting, his colleague MIGHT have time to head for the deck BEFORE capping the first hijacker.
His comment mislead (intentionally!) folks into believing that the airframe goes to pieces: While puncturing a fuselage at altitude WOULD NOT be a happy experience for those aboard -- and the ramp cleaning crew at the destination would NOT be happy -- I'll trade a burst eardrum or two and mussed hair for having my body parts dug out of the bottom of a 30' deep crater in a Pennsylvania field or raining down on pedestrians in NYC.
Mr. Do-Good is right about one thing: it was people like him in KC and St. Louis that defeated concealed carry, subservient democRAT minorities in the inner city who need protection the most. I applaud the people who had the gun in his house for being concerned about their own safety. I'm sure they are no longer friends of Mr. Do-Good.
For nonviolence to make good sense, there can be no violent people that interact with the nonviolent ones. If there are, guess who ends up on top?
If we have no guns, who will protect us from those with guns?
This is a valid concern. One should not leave an unlocked, loaded gun off one's body when children are about.
The questions that lingered in my mind are from whom were our guests protecting themselves and what had made them so afraid?
There are bad people in the world, and one needs to be responsible for one's own safety, especially when visiting a defenseless household.
No good answers came to mind...
Perhaps the deficiency is in the writer's mind.
I don't expect the Republican-controlled state Senate to bravely vote down this measure and resist the cash-larded lobbyists for the National Rifle Association.
Hey! That's my cash you're taling about!
I'm counting on Missouri Gov. Bob Holden's sensible veto to keep people in this state safe. A veto would uphold the public's mandate of three years ago.
There's nothing like counting on an official to keep you feeling safe.
High above Missouri roads are passenger airliners, where many pilots say they also need firearms in their cockpits "for protection." Unlike guests entering homes or motorists, airplane passengers are thoroughly searched. So is their luggage.
And unlike homes, airliners are flying bombs that can be used by people willing to murder defenseless pilots to kill thousands of people on the ground.
The consequences of firearms discharging in pressurized cabins would be dire.
Someone has been watching too much "Goldfinger", and not listening to the experts!
If the concealed-weapons bill passes in the General Assembly, vehicles being searched before they can be parked at Missouri's major airports will likely have guns that people forgot about.
1. Then stop the illegal vehicle searches.
2. Let them leave the gun in the trunk.
It sounds farfetched...
No, it sounds stupid and absurd.
But these are meaner times. Too often people view others as the enemy instead of fellow human beings.
An odd notion of self defense. It is "mean" to be prepared to defende against evildoers?!
I also fear the globalization of weapons' use as problem-solving tools. Examples are the war in Afghanistan, the escalating violence between the Israelis and Palestinians and the threat of a new war in Iraq.
This does not relate to self defense rights, or is the writer just trying to make people afraid of guns carried by swarthy people? Like they did in the old south.
The Second Amendment guaranteeing people the right to bear arms goes untouched under Ashcroft while other civil liberties are trounced in this climate of fear of terrorism.
Geeze! You would rather he trounced MORE of our civil rights? (At least the author acknowledges that this right is indeed a "civil liberty").
Yup, the "purse on the floor with a gun in it" part is a BIG no-no. This clown may have written that just to be annoying, but a loaded gun intended for protection -or any other reason - should NEVER be out of the immediate, intimate control of the operator. It should be either on or very near your person, within immediate reach and under constant observation, or it should be locked up.
If you don't have complete and total control of your gun, it's useless to you anyway and should be unloaded.
Once that gun is out of your immediate control, your influence over what-happens-next rapidly decreases, and not in your favor.
I was visiting some friends recently and I foolishly forgot to get a locking gas cap.
Imagine my horror when my friend's 8-year-old siphoned some gas out of the car, sprinkled it all over the house, and set it on fire. I am so ashamed ... and I will probably never be invited back.
Reworded: I don't expect the Republican-controlled state Senate to betray the nation and vote down this measure and to ignore the citizens who pay dearly of their hard-earned wages to protect the Constitution of the United States.
Despite a multimillion-dollar pro-gun campaign, voters defeated the ballot measure known as Proposition B. Prop B would have let people legally carry concealed weapons.
Reworded: Despite a passionate campaign to protect freedom, voters defeated the ballot measure known as Proposition B. Prop B would have let people exercise the freedoms they are guaranteed by the Constitution.
High above Missouri roads are passenger airliners, where many pilots say they also need firearms in their cockpits "for protection." Unlike guests entering homes or motorists, airplane passengers are thoroughly searched. So is their luggage.
Of course, they were searched on 9/11, too. But let's ignore that little incident.
Probably nothing untoward would happen, the pressure relief valve would just close down a bit, to the point where the reduction in flow through it equaled the flow out the bullet hole(s). Of course if the proper ammunition is used, and the shooter doesn't miss, there will be no holes. With some ammunition, even if he does miss there will be no holes. Worst case might be hitting a window. IF the transparency failed completely, which is not likely, then what you describe might occur. These folks watch too many movies, or at least don't understand that Hollywierd effects are not reality.
No metion of the millions of annual dues payers. "Where does the NRA get all that money?" he probably askes himself everyday. NewsFlash!!! The money comes from members you dolt. What he needs to ask himself is where does the money for gun-grabber lobbyists come from.
EBUCK
Geeze, if I was living in as much fear as this guy seems to be, I would be seeking psychiatric help.
First the LAWYER--then Mommy.
Should children be rooting around in a visitor's purse? No. If they did, should they know enough not to touch a weapon they found there? I'd like to think mine do (I've taught them enough)- But I won't be testing the theory anytime soon. Children sometimes do stupid things, despite what they are taught - that's part of what makes them children, and not adults. They should not have to pay for a mistake with their life because some moron who should have known better was irresponsible with a weapon.
If I were visiting someone who had children, and not carrying in a holster on my person, I would have left the weapon locked in the car, with the alarm on. If (and I stress: IF) this story the author relates is true, then this person was not carrying in a responsible fashion, and not doing any favors for the RKBA cause. It is just this kind of irresponsibility, should it lead to tragic consequences, that will make it difficult for us to get concealed carry passed in other states.
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