Delay ban on MTBE, report advises :Additive restriction could spike prices (California )

The Oakland Tribune ^ | Friday, March 15, 2002 | Jim Wasserman The Associated Press

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

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[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

calgov2002:

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[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Oops!

Sorry about the double post!

[tubebender]

Didn't gov Doofus reset the phase out to 2004 today. It was on another thread earlier.

[Carry_Okie]

This is garbage and probably payback from Davis to California refiners and gasoline distributors. California RFG (what DG calls a boutique formulation) inhibits refiners from out of state selling their product in California. It also consumes a great deal of natural gas to produce. Getting rid of RFG would reduce the price of electricity by making more natural gas available for power generation without constructing new pipeline capacity. It would make more gasoline from out of state sources available and thus LOWER gasoline prices in California, which have been among the highest in the nation for nearly a decade.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

It also consumes a great deal of natural gas to produce

Good point!

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[Myrddin]

MTBE is only added during the winter months. The summer gas supply normally doesn't have it. All they need to do is make "summer" gas all the time. The gas prices are spiking anyway. Prices in San Diego were $1.23 on 2-18-02 and are running $1.51 now at the same station. In Pocatello, ID the prices were at $1.02 and went to $1.19 overnight.

[Dog Gone]

Yep, the rational choice is to get rid of RFG altogether. Simply banning MTBE, which makes up a significant portion of an actual gallon of gasoline, will cause a gasoline shortage of an unacceptable magnitude.

It either needs to be phased out over a period of a couple of years, or the stupid rules about California gasoline need to be dumped altogether.

The latter would be my choice, but I know it won't be Davis's.

If we had a national standard for gasoline formulation, there wouldn't be shortages in each region, something that is essentially guaranteed every year under current rules.

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

If we had a national standard for gasoline formulation, there wouldn't be shortages in each region, something that is essentially guaranteed every year under current rules.

Isn't that in the Cheney / Bush Energy plan?

[Dog Gone]

Not that I've heard. That would be great. You've heard that?

[Carry_Okie]

National mandates? Once-size-fits-all specifications? Don't we know better than that? If people want to pay for oxygenates to reduce photoreactive smog, why shouldn't they be free to do so? It may resolve to a niche product, but there is nothing wrong with that.

I have a problem with mandates of any kind and (as you might expect) advocate a system that incorporates the price of air treatment into the buying decision. My trees would appreciate the investment and will take plastic. :-)

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Well, I thought I heard a discussion on one of the News channels that the number of different grades of Gas was causing shortages and an inference that the Cheney plan recognized that fact.

Perhaps it is my inference that it would call for the elimination of the different grades!

[Carry_Okie]

They supposedly only "need" CA RFG in two air basins in the state. If they restricted it to that there would be plenty of it.

[quimby]

Yep, the rational choice is to get rid of RFG altogether. Simply banning MTBE, which makes up a significant portion of an actual gallon of gasoline, will cause a gasoline shortage of an unacceptable magnitude.

No shortage should occur and here's why. In terms of enegy content, MTBE is close to zero. When the original tests were done, measurements were done related to pollutants per gallon of gasoline-- not pollutants per mile driven. In fact, the mileage for MTBE gas in CA is lower than federal reformulated gas, so supply would not be a problem if we switched to federal reformulatd gas.

But wait, it gets better. To comply with federal legislation (Clean air act) we must use either MTBE or ethanol, which is not produced here in CA. And their is no pipeline to get it here.

For more info on MTBE (Proven carcinogen) check link:

www.pushback.com/

[quimby]

They supposedly only "need" CA RFG in two air basins in the state. If they restricted it to that there would be plenty of it

Mtbe was basically toxic waste, a byproduct of the oil refining process. Today, all federal reformulated gasoline contains some MTBE, but not as much as the CA version.

The whole deal is a scam. MTBE is a carcinogen, and is finding its way into ground water, and even Lake Tahoe. The oil companies have benefitted by charging more for MTBE gas, and not having expensive toxic waste disposal.

[Pushi]

I think MTBE should be banned in Kalifornia. Wonder how Davis could spend the taxpayers money buying up gasoline?

[Dog Gone]

I wasn't thinking of a mandated formula, but one that sets the minimum threshold for emissions.

This EPA-mandated boutique recipe for each locality is asinine.

If you want to buy some exotic blend, and there are enough people like you, the market will give you what you want.

[runningbear]

MTBE is roughly 11% by volume, and in Ca it is year round for years now. The winter thing was superseded about 1995 to year round. Anytime the refineries have a meltdown, prices rocket upwards almost immediately, and anytime an oil shortage is news day speak, prices go up! I have been watching Chevron on Hwy 99/Briggsmore in Modesto, and nearly every other day, the price has gone up. Now today, this after noon, it is 1.51, and Costco is 1.45. In San Jose, prices are from 1.35 and up. Heard in Ill. about 1.89. Go figure, it is OPEC, and other factors. But regardless, MTBE should be phased out along with ethanol too! But the lobbyist will get there way as long as Ol Grayout can climb his treasure chest to 50 mil to beat Simon.

[editor-surveyor]

"...or ethanol, which is not produced here in CA."

But there is no reason that we can't produce it here. - Just the cannery waste alone, which is now being dumped into the sewers, would produce more than three times as much ethyl as we need (actually we don't need any, but that's another story) for motor fuels.

It's time for the hype to stop.