Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Dimensio
Oh dear, the common fallacy of mixing evolution and abiogenesis. Sorry, but evolution is a theory dealing with existing life forms, it makes no claims as to where that life originated. The hypothesis of life emerging from a reaction in a pool of biochemicals is not a part of evolution and falsifying it will not falsify evolution.

Interesting. From the literature I've read, abiogenesis is linked to evolutionary theory...at least one-way...abiogenesis "just happened" and then evolution took over. What you are saying, then, is that the study of life's ultimate beginnings (abiogenesis) has nothing to do with evolution? And if it does, it is only from abiogenesis-to-evolution, not evolution-to-abiogenesis?

The first life forms could have formed that way,

Supposition #1

or they could have been somehow seeded from space

Supposition #2 - But instead of dealing with the problems facing the evolutionary theories on how life began on earth the problem is shifted "out there".

or they could have been zap-poofed into existence by some divine entity (though the latter case could never be scientifically tested),

And abiogenesis can? Look at the experiments attempting to "recreate" life-from-nothing. Ultimately they stem from an intelligence.

but none of those methods would have any bearing on the validity of evolution -- evolution works on the life forms regardless of how the first life forms got on the planet.

Again, out of curiosity...what is the evidence you refer to that supports the statement of "...evolution works on the life forms regardless..."? What daily kinds of evidences are there?

You mentioned the "old straw man" argument, I would like to point out that many "straw men" exist on the side of evolutionary theory (for example, switching the meaning of evolution to that of natural selection...which Creationists agree with).

I also notice that the "seeds from outer space" idea is putting faith in an "entity" of some form or fashion that is "out there" somewhere, and typically it is this belief that is turned to upon finding the problems of evolutionary theory to difficult to deal with on earth.

At least the Creationists claim to have an eye-witness who recorded the events for them. But then, trusting in the Bible is another issue that even many Christians have a problem with. (As seen by compromising their beliefs because the culture thinks those beliefs arcane, silly, insert adjective here....)

73 posted on 03/08/2002 10:30:19 AM PST by Elijah27
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies ]


To: Elijah27
"Oh dear, the common fallacy of mixing evolution and abiogenesis. Sorry, but evolution is a theory dealing with existing life forms, it makes no claims as to where that life originated. The hypothesis of life emerging from a reaction in a pool of biochemicals is not a part of evolution and falsifying it will not falsify evolution. "

Interesting. From the literature I've read, abiogenesis is linked to evolutionary theory...at least one-way...abiogenesis "just happened" and then evolution took over.


Well that's a possibly hypothesis, but it's extending beyond the scope of evolution. Just like you said, the speculation of some is that abiogenesis "just happened" -- and what occured after abiogenesis, not before or during, was evolution. In other words, falsifying abiogenesis will not falsify evolution.

What you are saying, then, is that the study of life's ultimate beginnings (abiogenesis) has nothing to do with evolution? And if it does, it is only from abiogenesis-to-evolution, not evolution-to-abiogenesis?

Yes, the ultimate beginnings of life is irrelevant to evolution. Abiogenesis as an explanation for all life on earth would require a mechanism like evolution for the life being as diversified as it is now, but evolution does not require that the life have ultimately originated through abiogenesis.

"The first life forms could have formed that way,"

Supposition #1


Do note that I'm just offering possible "example" explanations without endorsing anything. Also note that my list should not be considered exhaustive.

"or they could have been somehow seeded from space"

Supposition #2 - But instead of dealing with the problems facing the evolutionary theories on how life began on earth the problem is shifted "out there".


How life began on earth is not a problem facing evolutionary theories -- how life began on earth is not relevant to evolutionary theories. A hypothesis that life was seeded from space would need to expand on how those life forms in space originated and how they got to earth, but such an explanation would be a matter independant of evolution.

"or they could have been zap-poofed into existence by some divine entity (though the latter case could never be scientifically tested),"

And abiogenesis can? Look at the experiments attempting to "recreate" life-from-nothing. Ultimately they stem from an intelligence.


Er, the problem with testing divine creation is that it involves the "supernatural" (at least until science can come up with a naturalistic explanation for dieties and their abilities) and as such it falls outside the realm of science. Abiogenesis can be scientifically tested, and it has been tested. The results, positive or negative, might reflect on its validity, but not its testability.

"but none of those methods would have any bearing on the validity of evolution -- evolution works on the life forms regardless of how the first life forms got on the planet."

Again, out of curiosity...what is the evidence you refer to that supports the statement of "...evolution works on the life forms regardless..."? What daily kinds of evidences are there?


That would be a seperate matter, though I could point to evolution of a bacteria culture becoming immune to a specific anti-bacterial agent through mutation (that's a pretty small-scale example but it is the only one I can think of off of the top of my head). My point was that evolutionary theory deals with the life forms that are already there, it is not about how those life forms ultimately came into being.

I also notice that the "seeds from outer space" idea is putting faith in an "entity" of some form or fashion that is "out there" somewhere, and typically it is this belief that is turned to upon finding the problems of evolutionary theory to difficult to deal with on earth.

I never claimed to hold to the "seeds from outer space" theory. I was pointing out that it, along with a number of other possible explanations for life origins, can be presented and none of them have any bearing on the validity (ie true or false) of evolution.
79 posted on 03/08/2002 10:50:29 AM PST by Dimensio
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies ]

To: Elijah27
At least the Creationists claim to have an eye-witness who recorded the events for them.

Which eyewitness was that?

105 posted on 03/08/2002 3:02:23 PM PST by Dog Gone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson