[mykej]

Yawn. This is the same old thermodynamics argument, and that's been shot down time and time again.

If you don't believe that order arises form disorder, you don't believe that plants grow, or that fetuses develop into grown up humans. More orderly states arise from less orderly states ALL THE TIME.

Please try to come up with something new.

[Mr. Lucky]

More orderly states arise from less orderly states ALL THE TIME

Just not by accident.

[ladyrustic]

Fetuses developing, and plants growing are not the same thing as order arising from disorder. A fetus is not disordered in any way; nor are seeds or seedlings. Order does not arise by chance from disorder and persist in this universe. Quite the opposite- things that exhibit some order tend to grow more disordered.

[woollyone]

the two open systems you provided as examples are not similar, as each of them has a pre-programmed result in their genetic code. This is also known as intellegence. By your arguments then, there was also intellegence in the ordering of the universe and the origins of life.

[samtheman]

This is the same old thermodynamics argument, and that's been shot down time and time again.

Exactly. This argument conveniently ignores the fact that planet earth is sitting beneath a water-fall cascade of solar energy which is powering the self-ordering structures we see all around us. While it's true that for the solar system as a whole the amount of disorder in the system is constantly decreasing (ie, the sun is burning out) order on planet earth is "fed" by the influx of energy from the outside.

It is an old argument. An old wrong argument.

[Quix]

You really seem to think your response illustrates rational thought and applicability to his math? . . . . to reality?

Astounding!

None are so blind as those who WILL NOT see.

[OK]

If you don't believe that order arises form disorder, you don't believe that plants grow, or that fetuses develop into grown up humans. More orderly states arise from less orderly states ALL THE TIME

This only happens when the orgnism is "alive". When it "dies" the opposite happens: decay.

The point is that life is driven by Soul, which is not physical.

[Biologist]

I believe that mykej`s reply is consistent with evolutionary thinking. To say that plants and humans arise from disorder is absurd . Me thinks Mykej needs to take a course in botany and cell biology. I am quite sure that other examples of order from disorder would be just as ludicrous and absurd as his previous examples. Biologist

[Target Zero]

You are confusing correlations. The concern here is about an individual cell’s entropy. The individual code information per cell, or per codon, does not increase—it can only decrease as the plant or baby ages.