[allrightythen]

Worrying ourselves into impotency over ephemeral grand designs, is a deadend leading to stagnation and no advance for diffusion of resource. One tackles what is whithin there own sight and capacity and leaves the rest to others and to God.

Not a bad philosophy. Thank you for that. And believe me, it would be easier to just believe all the stuff they tell us. I dont expect the great nation full of unswervingly brave and virtuous people that some of us (you?) are striving for. Heaven knows I'm short of great and virtuous myself.

I was fine till Clinton. Didnt care too much about JFK, Watergate, Iran Contra, but Clinton seemed so smarmy. I was oddly depressed on his election night. Then we had Waco, Flight 800, Vince Foster, OKC, John John, (am I leaving any out)? From all this I learn about 80's stuff I missed like Mena, the boys on the tracks, the CIA/Barry Seal, BCCI, Promis, the October surprise, yadda yadda yadda.

So that brings us to WTCs and the box cutter explanation. Sheesh--whats next? There are some serious hoods amongst the good people running the country. From all appearance the lawless element has more power than the majority of good civil servants. Is that paranoid? Those who go nuts over WWF Smackdown, and dont otherwise know diddly squat are never called paranoid.

Taxes? Too damn high, so high that they couldnt be constitutional. But do they have to be constitutional? I'm starting to wonder if they can be anything we allow them to be. I applaud your efforts. I applaud your ability to move ahead on one thing.

[ancient_geezer]

I'm starting to wonder if they can be anything we allow them to be.

The ultimate resposibility lays with us to assure the Constititution means something. It is our expression of will and tactical means to a strategic goal:

Constitution for the United States of America:

• We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Eternal vigilance is the price of Liberty, the Constitution can only be the goad and reminder of where to direct our Vigilance, and ultimately our actions.

We the people ignore it to our own peril.

[ancient_geezer]

Taxes? Too damn high, so high that they couldnt be constitutional.

I remind you of Patrick Henry's concern:

Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratifying Convention June 12, 1788:

• "the oppression arising from taxation, is not from the amount but, from the mode -- a thorough acquaintance with the condition of the people, is necessary to a just distribution of taxes. The whole wisdom of the science of Government, with respect to taxation, consists in selecting the mode of collection which will best accommodate to the convenience of the people."

The amount, reflects only our avarice as a people, the mode is due to our lack of vigilance and attention to principal. The authority of Congress to enact a tax is general and plenary. It is the fundamental responsibility of the People to set the course and lay the limits of that authority for any the condition of the age they live in.

Hylton v. United States(1796), 3 U.S. 171

"A general power is given to Congress, to lay and collect taxes, of every kind or nature, without any restraint, except only on exports; but two rules are prescribed for their government, namely, uniformity and apportionment: Three kinds of taxes, to wit, duties, imposts, and excises by the first rule, and capitation, or other direct taxes, by the second rule. "

Champion v. Ames(1903), 186 U.S. 321

• 'But if what Congress does is within the limits of its power, and is simply unwise or injurious, the remedy is that suggested by Chief Justice Marshall in Gibbons v. Ogden [21 US 1, 9 Wheat. 1, 6 L. ed. 23], when [195 U.S. 27, 56]   he said: 'The wisdom and the discretion of Congress, their identity with the people, and the influence which their constituents possess at elections, are, in this, as in many other instances, as that, for example, of declaring war, the sole restraints on which they have relied, to secure them from its abuse. They are the restraints on which the people must often rely solely, in all representative governments."

---

ETERNAL VIGILANCE my friend, there is no substitute. Government is directed by the people and is nothing more the the reflection of their own virtue and integrity.

[ancient_geezer]

You like to look for the unseen hand operating the levers behind the curtain. I submit this muse for you:

We know:

The founders of this nation were strongly rooted with the Judeo-Christion ethic. Whether or not specific individuals espouse the Christian faith or none at all, there motives, goals, and world view was nurtured in that broth;

The more thoughtful and the primary movers and shakers in creating this republic were well versed in history, political theory and very well aware of the uses of intrigue and misdirection in achieving strategic goals;

They were reflective and careful to select a specific form of government "Republic" with an eye to assure it functioned in response to the people en-mass but through representation of the people's virtues and moral state rather than direct action of the mass itself.

Thus we have a two part machine, one part the people injecting a portion of themselves into the controlling elements of the whole. The controlling elements arising of that body of the people, refects back the state of their virtue and moral integrity in the enactments of law enforced upon the people;

The net result when the people are righteous, they are blessed with righteous government. When they are less than righteous they are blessed with a government suited to there natures.

The nation, the machine, becomes a snare and a goad meeting out reward and punishment to direct the whole toward a righteous goal.

As I see it, nations are meant to be snares and traps to goad the people towards rightousness and a focus on the eternal as opposed to immediate gratifications :

Understand an allagorical connection of the biblical term "snare" with "nation"

Joshua 23:13

"13": Know for a certainty that the LORD your God will no more drive out any of these nations from before you; but they shall be snares and traps unto you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until ye perish from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you.

Then apply it:

Luke 21:32-35

"32": Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

"33": Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

"34": And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

"35": For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

Contemplate the words of Paul, in regard the vision of the founders of this nation:

Romans 13:1

"1": Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

"2": Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

"3": For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

"4": For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Just a thought :0)