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To: ancient_geezer
The tax is levied as consequence of the Sale of "Taxable Property" and Services. Your attempt to limit the scope by using a term other than "property" is a red herring.

Horsecrap, moron.

Excise taxes are limited to goods and services.
It does not apply to Real Property.
You're attempt to extend the definition to include Real Property is a fundamental assualt on property rights.
Go crawl back into your neo-fascist hole.

11 posted on 02/28/2002 10:44:34 AM PST by Willie Green
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To: Willie Green
"Enronize the Social Security system"

Wow, that's a Dem talking point isn't it ?

12 posted on 02/28/2002 10:49:38 AM PST by america-rules
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To: Willie Green

Excise taxes are limited to goods and services.

Your limited definition of what is taxed totally misses the point and effect of an indirect tax levied as a "DUTY" or "EXCISE".

It is not the property that is taxed, it is the "use or consumption" of taxable property on which the NRST is imposed.

A LAW DICTIONARY
by John Bouvier, Revised Sixth Edition, 1856:

DUTIES.
In its most enlarged sense, this word is nearly equivalent to taxes, embracing all impositions or charges levied on persons or things;

Can we all say it "What's a DUTY" as a constitutional term, Willy Green?

It does not apply to Real Property.

Real Property is not being tax under the NRST, "the use or consumption of taxable property" by others than the owner(i.e. purchaser or renter), is what is being taxed.

In the specific instance of the NRST, a duty is imposed upon the customer with regard to the sale (i.e. use) of new "Taxable Property".

You're attempt to extend the definition to include Real Property is a fundamental assualt on property rights.

The sale or rent of new nails, lumber, paint, roofing materials, and the services rendered in assembling such into a house are Taxed by the NRST. All of which fall under your "goods & services" red herring.

Use is the sale or rental, a taxable commercial event subject to an indirect tax:

KNOWLTON v. MOORE, 178 U.S. 41 (1900)

Tyler v. U.S. 281 U.S. 497, 502 (1930)

HR2525:

`SEC. 101. IMPOSITION OF SALES TAX.

`SEC. 2. DEFINITIONS AND SPECIAL RULES.

`(14) TAXABLE PROPERTY OR SERVICE-

`(A) GENERAL RULE- The term `taxable property or service' means--

`(i) any property (including leaseholds of any term or rents with respect to such property) but excluding--

`(I) intangible property, and
`(II) used property, and

`(ii) any service (including any financial intermediation services as determined by section 801).

`(16) USED PROPERTY- The term `used property' means--

  • `(A) property on which the tax imposed by section 101 has been collected and for which no credit has been allowed under section 203, and
  • `(B) property that was held other than for a business purpose (as defined in section 102(b)) on December 31, 2002.

A purchaser has no property right until after transfer of title. That cannot occur until sale + payment of lawful levies on the transaction are completed. It is the customer/renter that is taxed, NOT THE OWNER. No assault on property rights exist anywhere but in your mind.

The NRST is imposed upon "use", (e.g. sale) or consumption of taxable property. Not upon the property per-se and not upon the seller, (i.e. owner), but rather the customer.

Property for which the NRST has been previously collected and property held for non-business purpose prior to enactment is not subject to the NRST. Property may be taxed once but only once under the NRST.

As a concequence, residential land is not taxed. Resale of homes is not taxed. Only the use (i.e. sale) of new construction can be taxed under the NRST whether such imposition be via collection on sale or collections from renters in regard to rent.

At no time is the OWNER of property taxed under the NRST. Thus property rights are totally intact, even more so than under the current system of federal taxation.

16 posted on 02/28/2002 12:08:59 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: Willie Green

Horsecrap, moron. ...
Go crawl back into your neo-fascist hole.

Once again you decend into ad hominen invective and attack. Have you no rational basis for your misguided opinions. Tell us your real agenda here Willy Green, it obviously is not your pretended concern that investors and landlords holding Property are being taxed too much.

For investors, landlords, and owners of real property are not being taxed under the NRST.

17 posted on 02/28/2002 12:13:23 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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