Posted on 02/26/2002 12:25:12 PM PST by RJL
I am writing this because I feel every Firearms owner should know this story.
I placed an order for a Dell notebook computer on February 13 on line with Dell. I was given a tentative delivery date of February 21st. I was watching the order through the Dell on line tracking system; I also opted for the automatic email notification of when the machine was to be shipped.
Well the 21st came and went, I am a Pistolsmith I know things can happen. I made a phone call on the 25th, did a voice mail message for my salesman to get back to me and I was looking for the delivery date. The 25th came and went with no callback. On the 26th I placed another call this time to cancel the order. After a few hours I got a call back, with this amazing reason for the delay. It seems someone in Dell had already canceled my order, when I asked why I was told Dell was afraid I was going to use the machine for illegal purposes. When I asked why someone would think that I was told it was because of the name of my business “Weigand Combat Handguns Inc.”. Because I am involved in firearms I might be doing something illegal. Now keep in mind I was never called or informed of this decision the order was just canceled.
Many of you know me personally and know I run my business about as squeaky clean as possible. In addition being the President of the American Pistolsmiths Guild I am under additional scrutiny as to how I run my business, if I am not clean how can I be the President of an organization that promotes just that! I was informed by a Dell supervisor not long after all of this the reason I was refused was because of their post September 11th policy of screening buyers.
I would like to respectfully ask the firearms community to do the following. If you intended to buy a Dell and because of this letter you do not, email Dell and let them know why. Feel free to distribute this account to all you know in the Firearms community, I think they need to know. I for one am sick and tired of people assuming just because we are involved with firearms that we are doing something illegal. I also do not believe Dell deserves our business if this is how they intend to treat us.
God Bless Jack Weigand President American Pistolsmiths Guild Inc.
------------------ www.jackweigand.com
After speaking with Dell spokesperson Cathie Hargett, Sierra Times was sent the following official statement which concurs with her words regarding the Jack Weigand matter and other related issues. In our opinion, the fact that Dell choose to address the matter quickly and public on the record is commendable, and should change the tone of correspondece to their company from Second Amendment activists, or cease them altogether. - Sierra Times.
From Dell, Inc Founder and CEO - Michael Dell:
U.S. export laws restrict the sale of technology to terrorists and to people in countries that support terrorism. These laws also prohibit computer sales to people who will use the technology in developing biological or nuclear weapons. Dell strictly complies with our country's export laws in order to ensure the safety of our customers and citizens around the world. When there is reasonable cause for concern, we carefully review customer orders for prohibited destinations and activities.
This has been a Sierra Times Special Report
SierraTimes.com
An Internet Publication for Real Americans.
©2001 Sierra Times.com - All Rights Reserved
=====
Doesn't explain a thing to me. Doesn't explain why it was canceled outright instead of the customer being called and his order "reviewed".
"I'll never buy a Dell, Dude!"
Here is Jack Weigand's answer this afternoon:
Jack Weigand New Member Posts: 23 From:Mountaintop, PA Registered: Dec 2001 posted 02-27- 12:07 PM --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A little update. I was contacted by Dell this morning, a MR. John Hood. He explained the following.
He expressed Dells sincerest apologies for the problem I encountered. He said that Dell would be reviewing and possibly changing the screening policy.
Dell also offered to send me the machine I had ordered at no charge, I politely declined the machine. I would never want this to be turned into me posting this to get a free machine. Secondly for obvious reasons I am not interested in doing business with Dell.
Dell is sending me a statement to post on my web site sometime tomorrow explaining what they are doing and what they intend to do concerning this issue.
I know not all agree with my not accepting the machine from Dell but this is the decision I need to be comfortable with. My main issue was to get the screening policy changed.
Thank you all for the overwhelming support you have given me, over three hundred emails worth and only one negative, LOL!
God Bless
Jack Weigand ------------------ www.jackweigand.com
Good night all.
Here's a statement that I found on a 2nd Amendment-related website:
New Orleans Attorney Wendell Gauthier Dies at 58
On December 11th, 2001, Wendell Gauthier, one of the leading attorneys involved in litigation against the gun industry, succumbed to liver cancer. Mr. Gauthier was most famous for his involvement in litigation against Big Tobacco and was an early proponent of using the civil justice system to hold the gun industry accountable for the distribution of its products. Executive Director of the Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence Joshua Horwitz commended Mr. Gauthier for his leadership and guidance saying, "Wendell Gauthier was one of the driving forces behind efforts to reform the gun industry. He put together the Castano Safe Gun Litigation Group, which gave victims of gun violence and municipalities access to a powerful network of plaintiffs' attorneys. He was one of the most prominent attorneys in the country and his leadership in the gun litigation effort is irreplaceable."
Good! As far as I am concerned, he won't be missed.
Today the world is a little better place without him in it. Not much better. but a little.
Did not bill clinton arrange for a number of "super computers" that could be used in nuclear resarch i.e. bomb development and making to find their way to Red China?
Were said export laws in effect at that time?
My education continues: to illustrate:
When I was going to school export was when a nation send goods to another nation. Now Dell says that export is selling goods inside one nation.
I was told that it was a crime to perjur yourself. The democrats say, "not really, it depends on what "is" is".
And last but not least, judging by their actions, islam is a violent religion. Numerous posters on Free Republic have pointed out my error , islam means "peace".
Here's what I wrote -
-----
Mr. Dell:
A number of large American businesses have, over the last few years, found out the hard way that angering American firearms owners is Not A Good Thing. I rather imagine that you're now pretty well convinced of it yourself.
I have used Dell computers for years, both at home and at work, and I've recommended Dell to about a bazillion people, both privately and professionally.
But your "from the desk of" message is far from being sufficient in assuaging the damage caused by the cancellation of Mr. Weigand's order. He has nothing in his business' name that suggests that he exports anything, or that he's a terrorist or supports terrorists. He is a pistolsmith, i.e., he works on guns, specifically combat-oriented handguns. And there is nothing in that which should suggest anything about "terrorism" or "staying within the law for exports" such as you've suggested, any more than if he repaired refrigerators instead of firearms. In my opinion, both Dell's initial act of cancelling his legitimate order and your subsequent lame apology and explanation constitute what a very large number of us consider to be a very serious error in judgement.
I've been to a number of websites today where gun owners and non gun owners alike are saying that they will NOT buy or recommend Dell ever again, unless and until you issue a much more specific notice of policy change. I'm sorry to see that happen, because as I said, I've used Dell for years and would like to continue to.
Mr. Dell, there is NOTHING "terrorist" or even potentially illegal about being a gunsmith, and to think that your policy is to actually cancel an order just because a customer is a gunsmith, while you pursue checking out whether the customer might be a terrorist or be exporting illegal firearms is ludicrous at best. And to require him to sign a special waiver because he works on firearms is preposterous.
Remember K-Mart?
They made some major blunders when it came to firearms owners too, and they're filing bankruptcy. A number of very large financial institutions have been forced, due to the cancellation of so many business deals by so many firearms owners, to change their policies in regards to loans, etc., to gun owners and gun oriented businesses.
Please do the right thing and keep Dell going. Your computers are the best on the market, in my opinion. But neither I nor several million other firearms owners will continue to support Dell unless you change your policies and unless you make it plain that you have done so. I'm sorry, but offering a free laptop to Mr. Weigand just isn't going to cut it.
Sincerely,
Jefferson Adams
Yup... They need a FReepin'!
Mr. RJL -- Below please find an open letter from Michael Dell on Dell Computer Corporation's policy regarding U.S. export laws. I'm hopeful you'll be able to pass the message along to visitors of your Web site who may have an interest in this issue.
Thank you so much.
Colleen Ryan
Dell Corporate Communications
xxx.xxx.xxxx
To Our Valued Customers and Friends: U.S. export laws restrict the sale of technology to terrorists and to people in countries that support terrorism. These laws also prohibit computer sales to people who will use the technology in developing biological or nuclear weapons. Dell strictly complies with our country's export laws in order to ensure the safety of our customers and citizens around the world. When there is reasonable cause for concern, we carefully review customer orders for prohibited destinations and activities. When additional follow-up on an order is required, our sales representatives ask our customers four basic questions:
1. Who is the end-user?
2. Where will the product be used?
3. What will the product be used for?
4. What type of business or industry is involved? The answers to these questions, like all customer information we gather, are confidential and are not shared outside of Dell.
We recently received an order from a customer whose company name included the word "combat." We cancelled the order to give us enough time to follow up with the customer and be assured that the sale would be in compliance with U.S. export law. However, we failed to contact the customer, and as a result, we did not deliver the order as promised, and the customer did not know why.
Once we discovered our error, we apologized to the customer for this misunderstanding, as well as the inconvenience caused by the delay. This is not the service standard that we hold ourselves to at Dell, and if I were a customer who'd received similar treatment, I would be very disappointed.
We at Dell feel a strong obligation to uphold our federal law, but we have just as strong an obligation to be responsive to the needs of all our customers. I want to assure you that Dell does not discriminate against any business, regardless of the products or services they sell, nor do we discriminate against individual consumers. We do, however, sometimes make mistakes - as we did in this case. Thank you for your support.
Sincerely,
Michael Dell
Gun Owners Rally Around Man Denied Computer By Dell - Update
By Brian McWilliams, Newsbytes
AUSTIN, TEXAS, U.S.A.,
27 Feb 2002, 5:11 PM CST
Some gun owners are outraged over Dell Computer's [NASDAQ:DELL] initial refusal to sell a notebook computer to a Pennsylvania man because his company deals in combat handguns.
According to Jack Weigand, his Feb. 13 telephone order for a Dell Inspiron notebook PC was automatically canceled days later by the computer maker's export department because his company's name, Weigand Combat Handguns Inc., raised a red flag.
"They told me they were afraid I would use the computer for illegal purposes. Somehow I was singled out," said Weigand, who is president of the American Pistolsmiths Guild and a gunsmith instructor for the National Rifle Association, in an interview today.
Weigand said he was informed by a Dell salesperson that the company implemented an order screening system following the Sept. 11 attacks on America.
"If computers are dangerous, the scary thing here is that I could have just walked up to Best Buy and purchased one," said Weigand, who holds a federal firearms license from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearm's National Licensing Center.
After complaining to the Dell sales rep, Weigand received an apology by e-mail from a supervisor who offered to put his order through. But Weigand said he has no interest in doing business with Dell any longer.
In a statement, Dell chairman Michael Dell today confirmed that the company cancelled Weigand's order "to give us enough time to follow up with the customer and be assured that the sale would be in compliance with U.S. export law." According to Dell, the computer firm erred in not contacting Weigand and did not live up to its service standards.
On Tuesday, Weigand posted a description of his run-in with Dell at his Web site and in three online forums, including one for Ruger pistol owners.
The message, which was redistributed on Internet newsgroups and by e-mail, concluded with a virtual call to arms.
"I for one am sick and tired of people assuming just because we are involved with firearms that we are doing something illegal. I also do not believe Dell deserves our business if this is how they intend to treat us," said the posting.
Messages of support from other gun owners have subsequently poured in to Weigand's e-mail in-box and to online message boards.
"What's next, background checks on Dell Computers?" wrote one participant who called for a boycott of the company in a newsgroup for gun owners in Dell's home state of Texas.
According to Weigand, his encounter with Dell has touched a nerve with many gun owners.
"People in the firearms community are passionate about our rights. There's been a lot of talk about profiling lately, and this incident is viewed by many as an instance of that," said Weigand in the interview.
Dell's leader said the company does not discriminate against any business, "regardless of the products or services they sell, nor do we discriminate against individual consumers. We do, however, sometimes make mistakes, as we did in this case."
Weigand's firm, which he described as a two-man operation, performs customizing, such as adding scope mounts, on several makes of firearms. After Sept. 11, Weigand said he will no longer do business with customers outside the U.S.
Weigand's site is at http://www.jackweigand.com .
Dell is at http://www.dell.com .
Reported by Newsbytes, http://www.newsbytes.com .
17:11 CST
(20020227/WIRES ONLINE, PC, LEGAL, BUSINESS/ANTITERROR/PHOTO)
>Subject: More on Dell Computers
>Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2002 14:19:15 -0600
>From: "Denny Vasquez"
>To:
>
>Jim,
>
>The email you sent me concerning Dell computers could have not
>been timelier. On the Feb 18th I ordered a computer from Dell to
>replace the one that I have been leasing from them for the last 3
>years. My order was
>accepted and I was assigned a tracking number. When I logged on
>to their web page last Thursday to check the status of my order I
>could not locate it in their work stream. Therefore, I called
>Dell and was informed that there were problems with my order and
>that someone would call me back on Friday.
>
>Having not heard back from them on Friday, I called back on
>Monday to inquire as to what the problem might be. I was informed
>that my order had been canceled and that I was no long an
>approved customer of Dell Computer Corporation. Not understanding
>this logic, and knowing that each of my monthly lease payments
>had been made as requested, I asked to speak to a supervisor in
>order to determine why they had made this decision. After going
>up the chain of command several levels I was finally told that I
>was on a list of undesirable customers that Dell maintained and
>that they would not sell me a computer because they didn't know
>if all of my potential uses for the machine would be legal or
>not.
>
>When I asked them what they were implying, this supervisor said
>that according to their records I belonged to pro-gun and
>pro-hunting groups such the NRA, TSRA, SCI, Trophy Game Records
>of the world and others. When I inquired as what this had to do
>with my purchase of a new computer, I was told that the Dell
>Computer Corporation felt that it was their responsibility as a
>member of the US corporate society to insure that their products
>were not used for purposes that ran contra to Dell's corporate
>policies and beliefs.
>
>Bottom line of the conversation was that I had been labeled as a
>potential menace to society because I am gun owner and a hunter,
>even though I do not have a police record and have never
>participated in a law suit, therefore, the Dell Computer
>Corporation would no longer sell computers to me or to those like
>me.
>
>What a crock! Just thought you might like to know.
>
>Denny Vasquez
Author: Ricasso
Rank: Dell|Talker
Date: 03/01/02 07:48PM
So far we’ve experienced considerable consternation over the poor customer service and deplorable treatment of Jack Weigand. Then, once things begin to spin out of control for Dell, “Mike-O” makes an appearance to issue the obligatory corporate propaganda statement (i.e. Everyone makes mistakes and we were ONLY trying to follow the law for the good of our fellow man, oh woe is me…after all Pennsylvania IS in a foreign country isn’t it? And we wouldn’t want to violate the law and “export” a big, bad computer to a nasty old gun guy would we? He might use it to, god forbid, balance his checkbook or, even worse, manage his lawful business operations. Hey lay off us, the saints here at Dell are too busy curing cancer, judging customers, saving damsels in distress, and rescuing babies from speeding trains to worry about protecting peoples civil liberties. Jeeze, what a bunch of computer Nazi’s…NO COMPUTER FOR YOU!!! NEXT!!!) Ok enough sarcasm.
What is really starting to bug me is that “Mike-O” hasn’t responded to clarify his company’s stance on the bigger issue. He has a right to hold any opinion he wishes on gun control…as do I. However, while it seems that Dell is picking and choosing their customers based on their own alleged “Left Wing” agenda, they apparently don’t have the Male Genitalia (read BALLS) to come out and say it.
Then there is the even BIGGER question of support for Handgun Control Inc. It’s really a simple question…do you support them or not!? Wow, the silence is deafening! Obviously Dell has no problem with the issue of gathering information about MY beliefs and activities and then making decisions of my “worthiness” to be a Dell customer…so how about it “Mike-O”? What about YOUR beliefs? Are you “worthy” to sell me a computer.
I’m willing to chalk it up to a “misunderstanding” or an honest mistake. Maybe HCI is really to blame. Maybe Dell was hoodwinked into unknowingly supporting HCI. Maybe the gang over at Progressivefunds.com unethically linked to Dell without their knowledge…who knows…none of that really matters at this point. What I’m looking for is a position statement from Michael Dell. If all of this really is a misunderstanding, why hasn’t Dell computers simply said one of two things… 1) We actively and knowingly support the goals and objectives of HCI and believe in their cause…or…2) We do not actively and knowingly support the goals and objectives of HCI and believe in their cause. It’s THAT SIMPLE. Tell me where you stand so I will know where to purchase my next computer.
I, on the other hand, DO have the Male Genitalia to admit that I pick and choose who I spend money with based on my declared “Right Wing” agenda. In a nutshell, I will NOT knowingly spend money with ANY company who actively supports organizations whose charter beliefs fundamentally oppose mine. Failure to clarify your position DOES NOT make it go away. You are not an ostrich and this isn’t sand.
For those who believe as I do…vote with your dollars now…and your ballots in November.
By the way “Mike-O”, I’m a knifemaker and gunsmith as well…and, since I make some “COMBAT” knives, I somehow slipped through your dragnet when I bought my last computer. I’ll make it easy on you to do your part to protect me from myself…I’ll gladly box my Dell up and drop it off at the UPS terminal on my way to the Gateway store. That way the gun grabbing SOB’s at UPS can take this thing back to the “alleged” gun grabbing SOB’s that built it.
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