[Ward Smythe]

Now, why bother with the remaining four points if this is all we are going to get?

Let me just say that xzins clearly told you he would explain his position but he wanted to clarify yours first.

Then for whatever reason, you guys don't want to do that.

This bickering is pointless, and I don't have time for it.

I am not ashamed of what I believe. I am, however, ashamed of how I've acted and reacted on this thread. I am equally ashamed of others, but I'm not responsible for anyone but Ward. Our arguments here do nothing to further the cause of Christ.

These are the things I know:

The Bible is inspired, infallible
There is one God who became incarnate
Christ's death is substitutional
Our future is linked to Christ's Resurrection
One day Christ will Return

It may be appalling to all of you that in my heart of hearts, I think this debate is meaningless. I still have my beliefs about how it works, but what matters is that people come to Christ, not who made the choice.

I can see nothing in our actions here on this thread, or countless other threads that will cause people to come to Him.

I'd be a fool to say that I'll never enter the debate again. But if I do, I hope I remember what I've said here.

[xzins]

Let me just say that xzins clearly told you he would explain his position but he wanted to clarify yours first.

Ward, you are precisely correct. Woody understood that and asked me to go forward with that plan in #351. I will get around to beginning the posting of my criticisms of the tulip acronym this evening.

Then I will post the key points of wesley-arminianism. Then I'll post my criticisms of that (because I don't agree with all of it, either.)