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To: SKempis;CCWoody
On "(God's) punishing people for (God's own) decisions."

Romans 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Do you think reading this that it is God's decision or mans that send him to hell?

109 posted on 02/26/2002 6:52:17 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
You posted part of Romans 10 and asked, "Do you think reading this that it is God's decision or mans that send him to hell?"

First, thank you for such a good question. : )
Now that we are back on the subject... As I said earlier, I see no easy answer to the apparent support for Calvinism in the Bible. It goes against the attributes God claims in so many other verses. (As do many actions He apparently supported in the Old Testament.) So this is a difficult struggle for me.

Looking at the verses you posted:

There is none righteous, no, not one:
(So far so good)
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
(Supports the idea of its being God's choice to call us to seek Him)
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
(No one does good until he is saved? Do you really believe that? Honestly - think about it before we jerk our knees over our belief that the Bible is God's literal word. I know many people who do or did many good, caring things while yet unsaved. My grandmother comes to mind, along with other friends and relatives.)
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
(not everyone's)
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
(I know many whose aren't)
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
(What about "even the demons fear God"? And don't you know people who fear Him but don't really know Him? )

So you see my dilemma? I always read the Bible from a fundamentalist's point of view. But once I began serious study, blaring contradictions in the text became too much for me to ignore. Unfortunately, I still believe that if the Bible is not inerrant, we are hopeless to undrstand the Truth without depending upon personal interpretation.

"Do you think reading this that it is God's decision or mans that send him to hell?"

I would hope that it is man's decision.

However, in the context of this discussion, I would say that the calvinist idea that God chooses to rescue some from their life of sin, knowing that the others will be left helpless in it, would put the onus on God and not the man.

124 posted on 02/26/2002 7:46:22 PM PST by SKempis
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