Hey, no problem. It has to do with, you know, that pearls before swine stuff.
"Actually Isa.45:7 is relating to the 'evil' of divine judgement, not 'evil' in that which is contrary to God goodness. In other words, God will judge and discipline those who reject His will. This 'evil' is not His directive will (as Calvinists would state it), but God permits it since He has given man a choice. (Rom.10:21, Ezk,33:11, for the individual christian Heb.12:6) The companion verse is Amos 3:6, "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city and the people not be afraid? Shall there be evil in a city and the Lord hath not done it
Thus, this type of 'evil' comes from rejecting God, it is judgement."
The King James says "I...create evil"! What are you talking about? I see no reference to 'judgement' in this verse. If the translators of the King James would have thought that this was in reference to God's judgement, they would have put the english word 'judgement' in the text -i.e. 'I...create evil judgement'.
Then again, I do not subscribe to the (It can't really be saying what it says because that wouldn't fit with my theology so I must change the definition of the words that it uses as to conform with my pre-existing theologies) FTD Hermeneutic. Sorry FTD, the Authorized (By God) Version states that God created evil -plain and simple. I'm gonna take the simple true words of the KJV over your words any day!
Jean
I'll just consider the source of that statement.
"Actually Isa.45:7 is relating to the 'evil' of divine judgement, not 'evil' in that which is contrary to God goodness. In other words, God will judge and discipline those who reject His will. This 'evil' is not His directive will (as Calvinists would state it), but God permits it since He has given man a choice. (Rom.10:21, Ezk,33:11, for the individual christian Heb.12:6) The companion verse is Amos 3:6, "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city and the people not be afraid? Shall there be evil in a city and the Lord hath not done it Thus, this type of 'evil' comes from rejecting God, it is judgement." The King James says "I...create evil"! What are you talking about? I see no reference to 'judgement' in this verse. If the translators of the King James would have thought that this was in reference to God's judgement, they would have put the english word 'judgement' in the text -i.e. 'I...create evil judgement'.
Hey aren't you the guy who said you are suppose to 'compare scripture with scripture' Right in the chapter is one of the favorite proof texts of the Calvinists, (vs.9:20) showing that the passage (repeated in Romans) is not referring to individuals but to the future of Israel. In fact, the chapter itself is dealing with the prophetic nature of God and how (He alone being God could predict future events) Thus, God would raise up Cyrus (by name) to deliver the Jews from the bondage that they had not yet gone into. Vs 7 refers to the fact that God brings judgements and relief (peace and evil) on nations as a judgement. Context determines meaning, not out of context proof-texting'
Then again, I do not subscribe to the (It can't really be saying what it says because that wouldn't fit with my theology so I must change the definition of the words that it uses as to conform with my pre-existing theologies) FTD Hermeneutic. Sorry FTD, the Authorized (By God) Version states that God created evil -plain and simple. I'm gonna take the simple true words of the KJV over your words any day!
There are three ways to distort scripture, add to it, subtract from it and drop the context! Calvinists love to avoid any context, hence their misinterpretations of Rom.9-11!
God created evil only in the sense that He made sorrow, wretchedness,etc, to be the sure fruits of sin (Scofield study Bible,p.754)However, I am glad 'John' that you are willing to admit that Calvinism makes God the author of sin,
Hence recourse is had to the evasion that this is done only by the permission, and not also by the will of God...That men do nothing save at the secret instigation of God and do not discuss and deliberate on anything but what he has previousley decreed with himself and brings to pass by his secret direction...( Calvins Institutes, Bk1,Chapter 18)Thus, according to Calvin,(and Augustine) every evil act ever commited was done because God wanted it to happen so He would be glorified! Well, glory to God!
Thanks again for mentioning the KJB!
ShallMaking peace, and creating evil. By the words "light" and "darkness" he describes metaphorically not only peace and war; but adverse and prosperous events of any kind; and he extends the word peace, according to the custom of Hebrew writers, to all success and prosperity. This is made abundantly clear by the contrast; for he contrasts "peace" not only with war, but with adverse events of every sort. Fanatics torture this word evil, as if God were the author of evil, that is, of sin; but it is very obvious how ridiculously they abuse this passage of the Prophet. This is sufficiently explained by the contrast, the parts of which must agree with each other; for he contrasts "peace" with "evil," that is, with afflictions, wars, and other adverse occurrences. If he contrasted "righteousness" with "evil," there would be some plausibility in their reasonings, but this is a manifest contrast of things that are opposite to each other. Consequently, we ought not to reject the ordinary distinction, that God is the author of the "evil" of punishment, but not of the "evil" of guilt.
Hey Jean, you should check with 'Jean's' Commentaries before making rash statements!
Well, M. Chauvin, The KJ version is well and good but you still should buy a concordance. The Hebrew for evil in that sentence means adversity, affliction, and bad calamity which seems to say God will remove His protection. The other evil is a different word.