Posted on 02/25/2002 11:01:41 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
Count the number of I's in that! Did God have any part of it at all? How did you come to see yourself as a sinner?
Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Rom 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Speaking of Essau
Hbr 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
Would you agree that it is Gods grace that leads us to repentance?
From the very beginning of Wesley's sermon Mom:
The grace or love of God, whence cometh our salvation, is FREE IN ALL, and FREE FOR ALL.
BTW--the reason there are so many I's in my method is the "Repent!" portion of that verse...
Apart from the grace of God, none of us are.
But we've already established the Wesleyan belief in the grace of God.
I'd like to "hear" your answer to Shadow's question.
Do not put words in my mouth
Mom, to assert that any of us has said that we saved ourselves is misrepresenting our position and clearly not a statement of the Wesleyan-Arminian position.
With your Wesleyan background, you know that is true.
Can you ping me back to where you addressed Shadow's question? Thanks.
III. Now comes the concluding and third point, and that "THE BLESSED BENEFICENCE OF GOD in granting to men "repentance unto life." "Repentance," my dear friends, is the gift of God. It is one of those spiritual favors which ensure eternal life. It is the marvel of divine mercy that it not only provides the way of salvation, that it not only invites men to receive grace, but that it positively makes men willing to be saved. God punished his Son Jesus Christ for our sins, and therein he provided salvation for all his lost children.
He sends his minister; the minister bids men repent and believe, and he labors to bring them to God. They will not listen to the call, and they despise the minister. But then another messenger is sent, a heavenly ambassador who cannot fail. He summons men to repent and turn to God. Their thoughts are a little wayward, but after he, the Divine Spirit, pleads with them, they forget what manner of men they were, and they repent and turn.
Now, what would we do if we had been treated as God was? If we had made a supper or a feast, and sent out messengers to invite the guests to come, what would we do? Do you think we should take the trouble to go round and visit them all, and get them to come? And when they sat down and said they could not eat would we open their mouths? If they still declared they could not eat, should we still make them eat? Ah! beloved, I am inclined to think you would not do so. If you had signed the letters of invitation, and the invited would not come to your feast, would you not say, "You shall not have it." But what does God do? He says, "Now I will make a feast, I will invite the people, and if they do not come in, my ministers shall go out and fetch them in bodily. I will say to my servants, go ye out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that they may partake of the feast I have prepared." Is it not a stupendous act of divine mercy that he actually makes them willing? He does not do it by force, but uses a sweet spiritual suasion.
They are first as unwilling to be saved as they can be; "but," says God, "that is nothing, I have power to make you turn to me, and I will." The Holy Ghost then brings home the Word of God to the consciences of his children in so blessed a manner, that they can no longer refuse to love Jesus. Mark you, not by any force against the will, but by a sweet spiritual influence changing the will. O, ye lost and ruined sinners! stand here and admire my Master's mercy. He sets not only a feast of good things before men, but he induces them to come and partake of them, and constrains them to continue feasting until he carries them to the everlasting eternal mansion. And as he bears them up, he says to each one, "I have loved thee with an everlasting love, therefore, by my lovingkindness I have drawn thee. Now, dost thou love me?" "Oh, Lord," they cry, "thy grace in bringing us here proves that thou dost love us, for we were unwilling to go. Thou saidst, you shall go, we said we would not go, but thou hast made us go. And now, Lord, we bless thee, and love thee for that force. It was sweet constraint." I was a struggling captive, but I am now made willing.
Don't you just hate answers like that. I always get a chuckle out of...'If you can't believe the way I do, then you are obviously satanically depraved, and will never know glory and the peace which transcends all that man can comprehend...etc, etc'..
I had said he could not understand..I did not say anything about satan today or any day..
Once again do not put words in my mouth!
How does an infant perform these steps?
While this does not answer my question--there is a serious flaw here. This is in direct conflict with the parable of the feast. When the feast-giver heard that the invitees did not wish to attend, he sent his servants out to get the homeless, the destitute, and any who would come. He did not force the invitees to attend--he got others who were willing to attend.
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