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To: GovernmentShrinker
If non-Jews have full rights, then why does everybody have to carry an identity card which lists their nationality as "Jew" or something else (and if one of these nutcases has his way, it will list "Jew, Reform" or "Jew, Conservative" for those Jews who don't meet the theocrats' standards of orthodoxy)?
1. Why does your driver's licence give race? It is an identifying characteristic. Part of the concern is to differentiate between Israeli arabs and Palestinians.

2. Theocrats? The Israeli elite, stating with their Supreme court are anti-religious.

3. The point about Orthodox vs non-orthodox Jews is about CONVERSION. Many Jews believe noting that non-Orthodox conversion is easy, and that Reform Judaism has no respect for Jewish law, question the veracity of any Reform conversion.
Think about it this way. If you were converted to Christianity by a Unitarian minister, should you be considered Baptist?

Finally, while Israel is not a theocracy and its elite are secular, it is tied to Judaism. There is a trinity to Israel
There is the land and country "Medinat Yisrael"
There is the religion of Abraham Isaac and Jacob (Jacob was renamed Israel)
And there is the people/nation, the decendants of Jacob/Israel "B'nei Yisrael"

Just as the French differentiate between French and non-french citizens, so to does Israel. Whi;le non-Jews can be citizens they are not Israeli Israelis.
This differentiation is a little strange in the US, but it is the US whihc is the exception in the world. We are one of the few countries based on an idea instead of a race.
No matten how tolerant another country is, this distinction will confuse leftists and libertarians who seek to impose their view of secular non-racial Americanism on the world.

27 posted on 02/20/2002 6:24:57 PM PST by rmlew
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To: rmlew
"Their identity cards will now be worthless," Lau continued. "Tomorrow, if they want to register to get married, the day after if they go to the Immigration Ministry to ask for their basket of benefits or citizenship, they'll be told 'No, you're only thought of as a Jew on the population rolls, while as far as everything else goes, you remain in your goyishness."

The next move appeared to be up to Interior Minister Eli Yishai, leader of the ultra-Orthodox Shas, who was quick off the mark in blasting the ruling as "horrible, dangerous, most grievous, as well as anti-democratic." . . . Yishai said he could not bring himself "to register a non-Jew as a Jew". . . . As one option in the interim, Yishai said, if his office registers a Reform convert as a Jew, his clerks "add next to this the word 'Reform,' so that the whole Jewish people will know that he is Reform."

These people are talking about benefits and identity documents provided by the government, and one of them is the Interior Minister overseeing said documents. This is hardly just a matter affecting people's religious activities.

Why does your driver's licence give race?

It doesn't.

Part of the concern is to differentiate between Israeli arabs and Palestinians.

And why would the Israeli government need to to do that if both Jewish and non-Jewish citizens have "full rights"?

If you were converted to Christianity by a Unitarian minister, should you be considered Baptist

Thankfully, my government would leave that determination up to the Baptists.

It sounds as though many Israelis and Jews have already forgotten about those little yellow stars that were just supposed to be a helpful way of identifying who's Jewish and who's not. These programs tend not to turn out quite the way their purveyors advertise them at the outset. Be glad that Israel is moving away from this sort of thing, however incrementally.

29 posted on 02/20/2002 6:53:49 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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