Posted on 02/18/2002 11:03:34 AM PST by Sam_Watkins
Estimated 20,000 Orthodox Jews demonstrating on Tuesday February 12th, in front of the Israeli Consulate in New York City, organized by the Central Rabbinical Congress of USA and Canada, to voice their opposition to the existence of the state of Israel, their suppression of religion and brutal treatment of religious people.
The posters read as follows: [L-R] "Israel" dos not represent world Jewry
Rabbinical leaders fought Zionism since its inception
Authentic Rabbis always opposed Zionism and the State of Israel
Zionism have no right to rule over any part of the holy land
No doubt! Herzl's dream was a catastrophe for Jews
Zionism stole the name of Jews
"Israel" dos not represent world Jewry
Jews mourn 53 years existence of "Israel"
True Jews will never recognize Israel
Torah Jewry is united against Zionism & the State of Israel
Zionist ideology opposes the Creator
Oh No! Zionism will never succeed
We are against "Israel" because we are Jews
Zionism and Judaism are extreme opposites
Background sign: Israeli government: stop oppressing religious Jewry in the State of Israel
I suppose there is no everlasting covenant for the children of Israel in your version of the Koran.
Perhaps my answer should have been something along the lines of: You're damn right the Israelis should be held to a higher standard than terrorist-harboring, radicalized liars, thieves and thugs or the "subhuman dogs" so many around here feel perfectly justified in "exterminating" off the face of the planet.
Well, you are the one who seems to be excusing the behavior of the Palestinians claiming that they're "subhuman." Let me be more specific in my question: should Israel be held to a higher standard of conduct in the face of continued terrorism than the United States? Great Britain? France?
If, for no other reason, than -- just as every action of the State of Israel is excused at the risk of seeming "anti-Semitic" -- then every action of the State of Israel must needs be an inherently "Jewish" action.
Well, now we get back to the topic of this thread. Israel is a secular state of Jews, not a "Jewish" state in that it is run by secular law, not halachah (Jewish law). I don't even know if it would even be possible to run the state according to Jewish law, because of all the dependencies concerning the Temple. Personally, I am not in favor of stoning people to death for carrying loose change in the pockets on Sabbath.
There are specific (religious) laws concerning the conduct of leaders of a Jewish state, as to how the territories should be administered, how war should be waged, and how the leaders should negotiate. The leadership is not abiding by these laws.
How many of these Jews do you know personally? You have no clue!
When God has established covenants with his people through Noah, Abraham, Moses, or David, they resulted from God reaching out to his people through grace rather than through any particular entitlement of man. He proclaimed his covenants to be everlasting. Man can break his end of the agreement but God never does. Once man breaks his agreement, he doesn't restore it by his actions. God forgives man and restores him to his relationship with God. I don't understand your statements here at all.
Oh for Pete's sake. Are you going to send a thank-you to MAF for that spin on my response?
Let me be more specific in my question: should Israel be held to a higher standard of conduct in the face of continued terrorism than the United States? Great Britain? France?
Noting that it's the US who -- in the face of terrorist attack -- is not seeking to emulate Israel's standards, I'm not sure your question makes any sense.
Let me be more specific in my question: should Israel be held to a higher standard of conduct in the face of continued terrorism than the United States? Great Britain? France?
Noting that it's the US who -- in the face of terrorist attack -- is NOW seeking to emulate Israel's standards, I'm not sure your question makes any sense.
That's the effect I think some were looking for when they co-opted Zionism to suit their own purposes to awaken and unite in HATE a bunch of disparate Arab states largely in decline ... the heights of their civilization long past and even their traditional Islamic militance fast asleep.
If you take the militant atheist Soviets and Chicoms at their word with regard to radicalizing an arc of militant Islam (designed to buffer them both from the US, preclude continued US wooing of Arab loyalty with industrialization and US access to vital natural resources as part of the petroleum industrialization for which we were largely responsible), it would appear it's they who got the biggest geo-political bang for their buck.
(I say "got" even if I recognize full well the extant militant atheist communism of the Chinese and find a certain continuity of objective among the "former Soviets" as illustrated most recently at Pristina and in Afghanistan.)
Meanwhile, we not only contend with exactly the drawbacks they intended us, we bear the brunt of radical Islam's hatred of the Jews by virtue of our being the monied, powerful Big Brother who backs them due to their desperate circumstances regardless the essentially Good or Evil nature of the actions they take ... some of which have even been directed squarely at us and evidenced a certain disparity in what should by all rights be Israel's mutual loyalty and regard for we who are expected to be the primary and perhaps sole steadfast and true supporters of them.
Arguing for the eradication of Israel or stripping her of the defenses and support she needs for survival is as ludicrous as Ted Turner's suggesting that it's too late to shoot his own children so to thereby comport himself with the population control model he demands of others.
I'm certainly not advocating the destruction or abandoning or self-immolation of the nation through even the appearance of weakness, even of -- as I've learned and understood more -- I have certain questions about Israel I did not have as a young adult when I was unquestioningly Pro-Israel.
I just think there's room for rational consideration and perhaps criticism of Israel's actions and US policy towards Israel without it's being tarred and feathered as somehow "anti-semitic" or even anti-Israel.
We certainly feel free to criticize freely as right or wrong the actions of or our support for England or any other of our longtime allies. Even given the precarious nature of Israel's existence (an essential aspect of that existence since Day One), I think we should have the freedom -- and indeed are obligated -- to treat Israel like any other of our close friends in this respect.
Otherwise, it would seem Israel is a prototypical Victim ... unable and unwilling to break out of that Victim mentality.
We recognize the injustice when women or blacks or homosexuals demand special rights in order to be equal and then hide behind special protections which preclude evaluating them on the merits as if they WERE equal.
Why should we treat Israel as essentially unequal in exactly this same fashion and accord it the special rights -- including the refusal to judge her actions on the merits -- which shall only perpetuate its being unequal?
It's actually what regard I do have and have always had for Israel which suggests to me she is above copping some Victim mentality even in the face of certain danger from those who would destroy her.
Perhaps I'm the product of early conditioning ... wanting to convert to Judaism after watching "Raid on Entebbe" as a kid, even.
Or perhaps I'm impressed with the long-suffering resilience and strength, justice and wisdom, introspection balanced with vision and -- through it all -- charity that I associate with Judaism and the voices of the Psalms.
For all of those reasons, I guess, I consider it "anti-Semitic" -- a denial of her uniquely Jewish identity -- not to hold the State of Israel to the standards of human justice and right action and obedience to God's law as written on all human hearts -- as I've understood, cherished and inherited them -- from the Jews themselves.
Arab singer threatened with death penalty for disrespecting prophet
Child martyrs from Arafat's School
Girl shares horror of slavery
Jihad and slavery in Sudan
Perveen, stabbed in Pakistan by her own brother for loving Jesus
Honor killings in Palestine
Muslim Honor's Price: A woman's blood.
Check out Mansouria's post to this Muslim bulletin board regarding honor killing. Molested as a child, her fear is she'll be blamed for the molestation and she could have been EXECUTED FOR IT!
50 Palestinian journalists arrested by Arafat's goons, also rape, domestic abuse and honor killings of unmarried Palestinian women thought not to be virgins
Under Islamic law, women who become widows lose custody of their children to deceased spouse's family
Death by stoning for talking to a male
No, they are rightly called evil, perhaps, but they are all too human.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.