Posted on 02/18/2002 11:03:34 AM PST by Sam_Watkins
LOL...Just because they don't go to the same meetings as you?
What a silly thing to say.....who knows whether these Jews are anti-Semitic or not? Perhaps they are....perhaps they're not.
Several months ago a young child died in Jerusalem. The child died because his father, of this group, refused medical treatment from an Israeli municipal ambulance. They want nothing from "Zionists", even life.
This is a crazy cult. Jews have them too. Luckily very few.
However, holding Israel to a standard of perfection and absolute "morality" that is not at the same time demanded of the Palestinians or any other neighboring Arab nation is indeed subjective, insane, and anti-Jewish.
My point was that ALL nations -- Jewish or otherwise -- are to be held to the same universal standards of human regard. This is an impossibility if folks persist in demonizing each other as subhuman.
Had I gone farther, I might have pointed out that excusing one's actions on the express basis of "tit for tat" when dealing with folks one clearly regards as morally deficient and hopeless unjust can ONLY mean that one is lowering themselves to that level.
This from the fellow who's diagnosed me as "psychotic"?
C'mon, Lent. You're better than that.
I must walk the dog but will be back to read and respond to the balance of your last.
Wait a minute. I spent a considerable time a week back contextualizing for you the Stern and Irgun and the influences upon them and their influence re the general Jewish population. You didn't respond. I've done what was necessary. You did nothing.
Can you please point me to those who persist in calling Arabs, Palestinians and Muslims "subhuman animals"? I must have missed it the first time I read this thread through.
Thank's for hanging out tonight. Despite the comments on their way disputing what you've said, you're a breath of fresh air.
I believe they are dangerous because they don't want land for both Palestinians and Jews, they want none for the Jews. Sort of like my Palestinian professor of Arabic used to tell me; all for the Palestinians, none for the Jews. Now the Jews were expelled from Syria, Iran, Jordan, Lebanon, etc., a Hungarian politician is calling for expelling all Jews from Hungary; Russia doesn't want them...Argentina can't take any more unless they want to join the Jews already there who are near starvation. Well I hear that most citizens of the province of Antioquia, Colombia, and many Peruvians around Lima, are finding out they have Jewish converso roots and they survived the New World Inquisition, but those countries are pretty much overrun by leftist guerrillas, so is the U.S. going to take them all? Or Canada? Where are they supposed to go?
The Jewish Homeland!
The Jewish Homeland!
That is not quite the case here.
As you said, you don't spend much time on Israel threads. Indeed that could explain in part your unfamiliarity with the disgusting and dehumanizing terms in which Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims have been characterized.
However, given the fact that such dehumanization has been a staple of this forum on thread after thread after thread since September 11, 2001, I don't quite understand your complete surprise at my referencing just such terms as part and parcel of making my point.
The point being that it is, of course, absurd to presume hold Jews (or anyone) to a "higher standard" than Arab countries ... two of which our own President has identified as part of an "Axis of Evil" ... when these Arab countries are considered of so little worth and substance that even our armed forces do not feel obligated to abide by their laws when stationed on their territory as their good faith favor to us.
If I had the time, I'd start flagging you at each and every such dehumanizing post I read. But that would be like stopping in my tracks en route to work each time a tourist on my path decided to take a picture of the French Quarter.
Lol! That has not been my experience ... =)
Where are they "supposed to go"?
I guess I'm a little confused by the balance of your response. I'm not familiar with the state of affairs you cite in Latin America and I guess I'd say that if some were calling for the "expelling" of Jews from their homes in Hungary or elsewhere, it suggests that those particular Jews are troublesome for their desire to remain in Hungary.
I'll have to read up on the examples you cite. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea of Israel as some kind of holding pen to which Jews can be expelled on righteous grounds. Because some Jews wish to live in Israel, all Jews are somehow obligated to get up and go? I don't think that follows.
And, to be quite honest, I'm not certain Israel's particularly interested in having all Jews come to Israel by virtue of its being the place Jews are "supposed to go".
Again, I'm flying blind here but you've raised some interesting questions and I'll be looking to familiarize myself with the examples you raised.
May I suggest that you start by setting an example? Of what benefit do you see continuing this thread to thread dehumanization by bringing the point up yourself? Why can't each thread stand alone as it's own discussion, with links to other newsworthy items to back up points, without all the namecalling? Your complaint that "the fact that such dehumanization has been a staple of this forum on thread after thread after thread since September 11, 2001" may be a valid one, but what are you doing to stop it?
If you'll be so kind as to remind me what thread we were on, I'll head back over there and pick it up with you where we left off.
And ... at present, I'm beat, bleary-eyed after a night of class and ready to find a little supper and call it a night for now. This is not a "gimme", I've just got to take my leave. =) Regards, Lent.
You should be embarrassed exposing our private matters. You’re as free to flag me as I am to ignore you. Free country. Great invention. Enjoy the Quarter.
PS: terms of art?
I could call OWK or one of the libertarians in here for confirmation but I think you're beating the crap out of a straw man here.
Walk a mile in my shoes discoursing with the "A is A" objectivists and you'll see that words have special meanings for some folks and it pays to keep these meanings in mind if you don't wish to set them off or waste half a thread pulling out the dictionary and defining terms.
I don't know what you mean by your private affairs. As I mentioned, the use of dehumanizing terms for those souls we've had to "mist" of late is an understandable but regrettably altogether too common phenomenon.
Obviously, you have gone farther, but let me point out your mistaken simplicity.
This land was part of Jordan. It was won in a war which the Arabs started. The people who illegitimately call themelves palestinians have never existed in all of time. Palestine never existed in all of time. Most of these people are from various Arab countries in the region who have not one whit of claim to Gaza. Yet THEY strap bombs to themselves and murder children purposefully. Their main targets are civilians and their main objective is to kill Jews. If other Arabs happen to be in the vicinity, oh well. They don't care.
So you are suggesting that Israel stay mellow, allow themselves to be murdered,that they have no right to defend themselves from this kind of terror which would not stop until every last man, woman, and child in the State of Israel was dead, no matter what the price in Jewish blood. Even IF they suddenly laid down all their defenses, never retaliated, and smiled as they were being slaughtered, the terrorists would not stop being terrorists. And once the Jews are gone, the Christians would have no protection whatsoever.
When the Christians are gone, they will proceed to slaughter each other.
Are you truly suggesting that Israel shouldn't fight back? Do you honestly believe that the Christians shouldn't fight back? Do you really dare to suggest that the *moral* thing to do is to allow themselves to be killed? That is suicide by anybody's rules, and the Lord does not take kindly to suicide.
It may only appear to be a straw man to you because you don't like what I have to say.
Here's my point. You complain that "anti-Semites" are getting banned. I saw that complaint earlier on this thread. I'm not going to waste my time looking it up for you, we all saw it. I'm reading along, because as I said, you called these types of threads to my attention earlier, and things look fine here. Yeah, a little philosophical, political, and religious disagreement, but everyone involved, except for the guy who posted an uncalled for insult to veronica, seems to be doing their very best to communicate. Then out of the blue you post a reply to Alouette as if he's the one who called Palestinians "subhuman animals" when he had done no such thing. Then you pass it off as trying to make a point that there will be no progress as long as these parties continue to dehumanize each other. That is EXACTLY what you did with your post. Why? You only perpetuate the very thread to thread dehumanization you are protesting.
I guess because I'm a "newbie" to these threads and didn't realize that it's okay for Askel to say it as long as no one else does, I didn't catch on.
As an outsider to these threads, my observation is that the one who complains the loudest is the one committing the offense.
Think about what I've said. Go back and read this thread.
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