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To: VadeRetro
"Many totally unrelated features can be evolving at the same time. The fossil record is quite good for the therapsid-to-mammal transition "

For heaven's sake! We have no evidence of mammary glands in any fossils. We therefore cannot say that all species which had those bones had mammary glands or the opposite that all species which had mammary glands had those bones. Further, you cannot give proof of such a transition without knowing that these species you say were mammals did indeed have mammary glands.

In addition to all the above you are advancing the ridiculous notion that random mutations occur simultaneously in totally unrelated parts of a species. If changes have indeed occurred simultaneously in totally unrelated parts of a species, they would be proof of creation not evolution.

643 posted on 02/24/2002 8:09:43 AM PST by gore3000
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To: gore3000
For heaven's sake! We have no evidence of mammary glands in any fossils.

The therapsid-to-mammal series goes from identifiably reptilian creatures to identifiably mammalian ones. The rest of your obviously unpreviewed screech I'll pass without comment.

For the lurkers, what gore is wishing away is this sequence:


The top two are early fossil mammals. The ones below are increasingly old therapsid reptiles, the line that gave rise to mammals. As you scan up, the multi-part jaw bone typical of modern reptiles drifts apart and becomes the hammer-anvil-stirrup ear bones which are diagnostic of mammals.

The figure is from The Fossil Record: Evolution or "Scientific Creation" by Clifford A. Cuffey.

647 posted on 02/24/2002 9:02:42 AM PST by VadeRetro
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To: gore3000
You haven't answered 642 yet. I'm curious. You so seldom see a creationist say, "Oops! I had that backwards! The DNA studies show it was hippos. Mesonychus is what it wasn't."

In fact, you so seldom see a creationist say "Ooops!" at all. And yet, they're far from infallible. (About as far as it gets, IMHO.)

651 posted on 02/24/2002 9:21:22 AM PST by VadeRetro
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To: gore3000
You seem to think that mammary glands are the sole arbiter of what may or may not be a mammal. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. All mammals share some things in common, mammary glands being only one of those features. Mammals also have some sort of hair or fur (sparse in some cases, heavy in others), differentiated dentiture, a like number of holes in their heads and the ear bones in internal ears. Just so happens that in modern animals, all the critters who share the latter features also have mammary glands. Of course you can pull a medved and scream "things were different in the old days! And four out of five makes you a lizard!" But then you'd be flying in the face of evidence, which is pretty much what you do anyway.
679 posted on 02/24/2002 2:03:22 PM PST by Junior
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