[Virginia-American]

Thanks for the cytochrome c information. I have yet to hear how creationists deal with
1) vestigal organs like the appendix (except to claim they're not vestigal)
2) the hipbone of whales, and,
3) birth defects such as an occasional baby with a tail.

My own opinion is that any one of these, on its own, is strong evidence for common descent. Add the molecular data, which corroborates in detail, and the case for evolution is overwhelmingly proven.

[ThinkPlease]

A Holy-cow-this-is-still-going-bump.

[Lurking Libertarian]

My own opinion is that any one of these, on its own, is strong evidence for common descent. Add the molecular data, which corroborates in detail, and the case for evolution is overwhelmingly proven.

I agree with you, if we are speaking about "evolution" to mean the common descent of all living things from the first primordial living thing, through a process consisting chiefly of mutation and natural selection. How that first life arose is, in contrast, still unproven and indeed, largely a matter of speculation at this point.

None of this, IMHO, in any way contradicts my faith that God created the heavens and the earth; I merely believe that, once He created the laws of nature, God used those laws to achieve His purposes.

[scripter]

3) birth defects such as an occasional baby with a tail.

Please expand on this one. I've heard creationists say the tail was part of the recapitulation fraud (was it really fraud?) or are you referring to something else?

[gore3000]

"I have yet to hear how creationists deal with 1) vestigal organs like the appendix (except to claim they're not vestigal)"

How dishonest of you! In post#701 I said:

Wrong. Doctors have found uses for both the appendix and the tonsils. Your statement is an example of the know-nothingism of the evolutionists:

"For years, the appendix was credited with very little physiological function. We now know, however, that the appendix serves an important role in the fetus and in young adults. Endocrine cells appear in the appendix of the human fetus at around the 11th week of development. These endocrine cells of the fetal appendix have been shown to produce various biogenic amines and peptide hormones, compounds that assist with various biological control (homeostatic) mechanisms. There had been little prior evidence of this or any other role of the appendix in animal research, because the appendix does not exist in domestic mammals.

And then you agreed with my statement in the following:

"I didn't know the appendix was actually needed" 705 posted on 2/24/02 8:33 PM Pacific by Virginia-American

But then, like a dog with a bone, evolutionists keep repeating the same lie long after it has been disproven, hoping that people will forget the truth and believe the lie through constant repetition.