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To: biblewonk; xzins
If you calvinists are correct and our evangelism makes no difference in whether one accepts Christ or not, then no one is ultimately kept from the Lord. - xzins
Therefore man can not send anyone to hell by failing to wittness the right way or refusing to wittness to someone he hates. Praise the Lord my failure can't cost anyone eternity.

Actually, xzins is not grasping our beliefs. We affirm specifically that in addition to not being able to cost anybody anything eternally (thank God I can't mess it up for anyone--let that burden die at the foot of the cross) we also believe that our evangelism makes all the difference in the world for a lost sinner. We are commanded to throw the seed and trust that God has it perfectly under control to prepare the ground and water it. Salvation is of the Lord!

After all, God has chosen the preaching of the cross to call His elect.

455 posted on 02/20/2002 1:29:51 PM PST by CCWoody
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To: CCWoody, rnmomof7, jerrym
Woody, I've responded on this to Jerry. I carefully selected my words: our evengelism makes no difference in whether one accepts Christ or not

Now, I didn't say that calvinists aren't historically great evangelizers. I said that their doctrine insists on: (1) irresistible grace (can't say "no" to God) and (2) Unconditional Election (God EXCLUSIVELY picks those who will be saved).

Woody, it is a logical necessity of those two points that they at least mean that "neither the person nor any other" can withstand what God has elected to do and uses his power to insist upon.

Many calvinists evangelize, then, because of "obedience." They do so because God told them to. Others, and you know this is so, (1) Don't believe there is any point in doing so AT ALL, OR (2) Do so "resignedly;" i.e., as an illogical chore (as opposed to a matter of obedience.)

No Calvinist, however, can affirm irresistible grace, unconditional election, and some notion that their behavior could be an integral factor in "whether one accepts Christ or not."

Someone wrote on one of the threads recently about Calvinists being of a nature to "life someone's coat to see if they have stripes down their back (or something like that." That is appropriate for Calvinists who OBEDIENTLY evangelize: there's is an "identification" campaign, helping to IDENTIFY those God has already elected who will inevitibly be irresistibly drawn.

470 posted on 02/21/2002 1:59:17 AM PST by xzins
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To: CCWoody
we also believe that our evangelism makes all the difference in the world for a lost sinner.

The Armenian believes the evangelist has the power of life and death. Remember when Lydia got saved in Acts 16:14.

And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord had opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

She reminds me of a micro Paul in her salvation. Both had some knowledge of God before they were born again. In both you see that God is soverign and is doing everything. The evangelist is motivated by the Spirit to give the message knowing that it may trigger the event but the event is all controlled in the background by God. He has forknown, He has predestined, He has called, he has Justified and He has glorified.

When Paul gets saved you see even less of man involved and you don't see this big ole make a choice opportunity occur. God just reveals Himself and there is no accept or reject thing going on with Paul.

473 posted on 02/21/2002 4:54:25 AM PST by biblewonk
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