Pardon me for pointing out that you are a fourth-generation Wesleyan who does not necessarily understand the controversy any better than Wesley did when he precipitated the worst rift in the history of Protestantism.
I think we have a 1 Corinthians 3 problem here.
While you are stewing (ha!), please look again at my #152. Thus far, you have not bothered to address the really cool verse from 1 Corinthians 2.
I guess you can decline to do so on the grounds that you have already declared that will not post to me any more. Okay. In that case, I'll point out to lurkers that you aren't interested in the Scriptures, that you get miffed far too easily.
I run into this all the time. So did Paul.
Here's a place we really agree, doc. It positively amazes my how thin-skinned so many who call themselves Christians are. I believe we should seek to neither cause offense or be offended. Certainly in the heat of debate, especially about things we believe strongly, and because we try to use the strongest agruments and methods of persuasion we can, we sometime say things which are offensive. If they are said to us, however, we should never be offended. They are, after all, only words.
Most people are not really trying to offend, no matter how offensive they are. But, if they are trying to offend, we can then afford to be very gracious to them, because we have already won our point.
I know, I'm preaching to the choir.
Sorry!
Hank
Okay, I'll bite one more time. I read it, in several translations and I will honestly admit I'm just not following you here. Maybe I'm just getting tangled up in terminology. Help me out if you will by just what you mean when you say:
That, in turn, means that regeneration has to precede repentant faith.
Yeah, I was miffed, but you were arrogant and insulting. I understand that you believe that's because you're secure in your beliefs and your need to proclaim the gospel.
But quite frankly, when you say: Okay. In that case, I'll point out to lurkers that you aren't interested in the Scriptures, that you get miffed far too easily. my first response is that you forgot to say "Nanny, Nanny, Boo, Boo."
So, even though you probably think that I'm an idiot (and I assure you, I could find a long list of people who would agree with you), I am interested in what you have to say, as long as you can do it without hurling insults. I assure you that I will (from this point on) give you the same consideration.