[fortheDeclaration]

ftD has never given satisfactory answers to any of my arguments concerning Romans 9. On another thread, I demonstrated conclusively that his "National Israel" explanation doesn't work. The entire chapter is talking about salvation. This just gets curiouser and curiouser.

Only in your own mind did you ever prove anything 'conclusively'(You sound like Bogart in that movie when he sat in the witness stand talking about the strawberries and playing with his iron balls)

It doesn't work?

for I could wish that myself accursed from Christ for my Brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh Who are the Israelites; to whom pertainteth the adoption, and the glory and the covenants, and the giving of the law and the service of God, and the promises, Whose are the father of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever.Amen.

Now, who is Paul referring to there? The individual believer or Israel? Chapters 9-11 are discussing the history and future of Israel (Rom.11) but then Paul does warn about those who are like yourselves, 'wise in your own conceits'

It just gets curiouser and curiouser!

[rwfromkansas]

I am sorry, but nobody could honestly claim Romans 9 does not apply to the Gentiles (for crying out loud, it even says so!!!!!!) Unless of course, you have an agenda to exalt yourself above God.

[irishtenor]

Romans 9:6 "for not all who are descended from Israel are Israel". These chapters are talking about the TRUE Israel, the faithful, the adopted sons of God. In other words - CHRISTIANS.