Oh, no I never said that! I believe that no one, not even you, know the Calvinist position! It changes moment to moment based on the need!
then how about discussing the following that I recently posted on another thread. The fact that no non-Calvinist has addressed this topic as of yet is really very telling:
Well, now my feelings are hurt! Why did you not 'ping' me?
I did want to introduce another thought for us to ruminate on: Many of our "Calvinist v. non-Calvinist" discussions have contained a considerable about of wrangling about "free-will". Oft times, the non-Calvinists accuse the Calvinists of denying "free-will",
We know you do not 'deny'it, you just make it a nondefinition (the sinner is 'free to sin' but not free to choose for Christ-oh yea, real free will (1984 stuff))
yet they never do give (in my opinion) a satisfactory definition of exactly what "free-will" is. We Calvinists have many times given our definition of "free-will", to wit: "man is free to do that which he wants".
Actually, free will is to choose between alternatives.
Now, with that preface out of the way, I would ask this question: Will a saved, glorified man who has entered into the eternal presence of God have the ability to sin?
No.
If not, then doesn't this violate his "free-will", as defined by the non- Calvinist?
No, because he already made his choice by believing in Christ. Once that is done, he has been committed to what God has for him. Man's choices are not open ended.
After all, how could that man be "free indeed" in Christ if he is not allowed the choice to sin? I will give the Calvinist answer. The saved, glorified man has the same "free-will" that the lost, unregenerate man has. The saved, glorified man wants to glorify God, and is free to do so, and will do so forever. The lost, unregenerate man wants to sin, and is free to do so, and will continue to do so until he is either regenerated or stands before God in judgment. However, neither man is free to do that for which he has no ability. The man who is dead in trespasses and sins has no ability to perform God pleasing actions, but this does not restrict his "free-will". The man who is glorified in the presence of Christ has no ability to sin against God, but this does not restrict his "free-will". (Let me just mention that this is exactly the same type of "free-will" that God posesses.)
The problem is that we are not God, but creatures. Free will is an issue in our we relate to a perfect, loving God, do we respond or reject. In eternity, the choice we have made will put us in a permenent love relationship. It is like marriage. You have a choice to make and after that your choice is over. Now, the relationship choices must be made, which for us in time is a daily walk. In eternity, those choices we made in time will translate into the relationship we will have with Him in eternity. Those who made 'good' choices will have a far closer relationship with Him then those who were saved but neglected the day to day walk.
The only ones who can both sin and perform God pleasing actions simultaneously are those regenerated believers who are not yet glorified. We are the ones who know that "in our flesh dwells no good thing". We are the ones faced with the difficulty described in Romans Seven.
Hey, Woody says that Rom.7 doesn't apply to believers but to unbelievers! You better check with him on that! You actually believe in the two natures! WELL Amen! Any (non-Calvinist) takers?
No man's will is completely "free" in any aspect of life. Let's leave aside the sotierlogical application for a minute. Our choices are influenced by a whole multitude of factors -- emotions, society, and so on.
The free will position gives man the say in whether or not he's saved. The position is attractive, to be sure, while Calvinism seems cold and heartless to the non-Calvinist. But the shortcoming of the Calvinistic position is that it assumes that man could make the choice for salvation.
But I Cor. 1: 18 explains that those which are perishing consider the gospel to be foolishness. The passage later explains that this is such "that no flesh might glory in his presence" (1:29), that is because in the flesh there is nothing good, nothing worthy of glory.
When we get to I Cor. 2:10, the Apostle Paul explains how, while the blessings God has awaiting his believers are so great that no human mind could conceive of them, but that "God hath revealed them to us by His Spirit." And continuing:
for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.What we have here is that the natural man, that is, man not regenerated by the Holy Spirit cannot receive the things of the Spirit of God -- because they are spiritual, and are foolishness to him.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
Sure, man is free to make any choice he wants. It's just that the natural man will never want to choose Christ.