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Polarizing Patriotism: Why is there no middle ground?
dailycollegian ^ | January 31, 2002 | Jason Clemence

Posted on 02/12/2002 8:30:13 AM PST by vannrox

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To: moneyrunner
I don't know, it would depend on their overall views.
21 posted on 02/12/2002 9:31:39 AM PST by stuartcr
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To: moneyrunner
In all fairness, I see absolutely no statement in this article that seems to even imply that the author found the action in Tampa "ambiguous" in the least. The point of the article seems very firmly to be about something much broader than the Tampa incident. I am commenting on that something, not on whether or not this kid was evil or ambiguous.
22 posted on 02/12/2002 9:34:57 AM PST by truenospinzone
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To: moneyrunner
The article is about the young man who flew his plane into an office building. The author finds his actions, and his motivations ambiguous."

I believe he is confusing "ambiguity" with "schizophrenia." This child was obviously either a)seriously disturbed, or b)under the malignant influence of a substance or person. Most probably a mixture of both -- in any case, he is a poor example for the writer's argument.

I also can't remember Bush telling Americans to "fly a flag" -- as I recall that began spontaneously, but of course the author, being liberal, has no use for historical accuracy.

23 posted on 02/12/2002 9:47:26 AM PST by browardchad
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To: vannrox
True patriotism is embodied by humility and respect for differing opinions...

The author feels that he can turn the debate in his favor by redefining "patriotism" to something more congenial to his point of view. If he were the arbiter of the English language that would be one thing, but he isn't, he's just another liberal pushing vagueness as profundity. Nice try. It is amazing to me the number of liberals who were in open contempt of patriotism six months ago and who are now informing us of the true meaning of the word. I ain't buying.

There was no room for discussion of U.S. sanctions in the Middle East.

Of course there was - and the position of the left was that such sanctions had killed 100,000 Iraqi children and were immoral.

However, the greatest threat to our security is not a Fundamentalist Islamic regime or a power-hungry dictator, but our own arrogance that we, as Americans, belong automatically to a higher order of humanity.

If the author is referring to himself here he might have a case.

The author simply doesn't understand that there is something inherently polarizing in somebody arrogating to him- or herself the right to kill you to get your attention. Attempting to occupy a fictional middle ground with such an individual merely gives him or her a chance to make another attempt. There is nothing moral about this; there is a great deal stupid and suicidal about it.

24 posted on 02/12/2002 9:51:57 AM PST by Billthedrill
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To: vannrox
I love this part:

The confusion that the Charles Bishop incident has caused is not just due to the apparent oxymoron created by the contrast of his personality and his actions, but also because of a fine distinction that has been created between patriotism and anti-Americanism. It is much easier to diametrically oppose these two concepts than to accept that very few people are one or the other; it allows us to label ourselves and others in order to feel safe in a hostile social climate.

Ummm, "I kinda like America and I kinda want to crash a plane into a building to point out their subtle faults?"

How about: "I don't believe that America should be destroyed, but it is evil and must be wiped from the face of the earth."

Or this: "Even though I don't approve of Osama bin Laden, I'm glad that his supporters are causing us to examine our foreign policy by killing us."

Is that good? Is that the middle ground?

25 posted on 02/12/2002 10:04:37 AM PST by Cogadh na Sith
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To: Owl_Eagle
When a battle starts, look at who is on your side, identify any cowards, and kill them first.

That worked so well for the Red Army in the 30s, doncha know....

26 posted on 02/12/2002 10:08:40 AM PST by steve-b
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To: stuartcr
There is always a middle ground, otherwise, you couldn't have two sides. You just have to allow it.

I realllly want to kill you and eat you.

Let's see if we can find some middle ground: Can I just kill you? No?

What if I just kill you and only eat your limbs? OK?

I'm sure there is some middle ground here....

How about I anesthetize you and only eat one of your arms and one of your legs?

That's a quite reasonable 'middle ground' in this instance.

You just have to allow it.

27 posted on 02/12/2002 10:09:52 AM PST by Cogadh na Sith
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To: steve-b
That worked so well for the Red Army in the 30s, doncha know....

Defeatist.

28 posted on 02/12/2002 10:10:58 AM PST by Cogadh na Sith
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To: vannrox
I've noticed that libs cannot - will not - say that "this is right and that is wrong". It's always a "continuum" or a gradient of gray between good & evil. And we're definitely "not qualified to say what is right or wrong for another person."
I just can't stand it! Take a stand, otherwise we'll have to guess which side you're on. And if we have to guess, we'll guess the way with the least ambiguity.
29 posted on 02/12/2002 10:16:57 AM PST by MrB
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To: MrB

HE WHO IS
"MIDDLE OF THE ROAD"
WILL
EVENTUALLY BE RUN OVER.


30 posted on 02/12/2002 10:22:26 AM PST by vannrox
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To: chookter
I think you're confusing the terms "common ground" and "compromise".
31 posted on 02/12/2002 10:25:27 AM PST by truenospinzone
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To: truenospinzone
I think you're confusing the terms "common ground" and "compromise".

Then what the heck is 'middle ground'?

What if there is no 'common ground'? They wanna kill us and we don't wanna die--let's find some common ground there...

32 posted on 02/12/2002 10:35:40 AM PST by Cogadh na Sith
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To: Restorer
"Sounds very macho, but offhand, I can’t think of a more effective way to destroy a military unit."

If you are not willing to fight you are wasting a gun and ammo.

33 posted on 02/12/2002 10:36:10 AM PST by illbenice
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To: illbenice
If you are not willing to fight you are wasting a gun and ammo.

That's right, I'd shoot every last man in my unit to inspire them to victory!

LOL.

34 posted on 02/12/2002 10:40:47 AM PST by Cogadh na Sith
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To: chookter
Again, the debate here isn't about "us vs. them". It's about the current political climate, where the prevailing attitude seems to be black and white.

The black and white version is "I am an American, so I fly an American flag, pray every day, and love my president" or "Because I don't do any of those things, I am not a true patriotic American". The middle ground is "I love this country and want to see the awful acts of 9-11 dealt with, but I think there's room for debate regarding who constitutes 'they' and what exactly we should do to 'them'."
35 posted on 02/12/2002 10:46:34 AM PST by truenospinzone
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To: Restorer
Something my father, a 20 year military veteran always told me: “When a battle starts, look at who is on your side, identify any cowards, and kill them first.”

Sounds very macho, but offhand, I can’t think of a more effective way to destroy a military unit.

I’m pretty sure he didn’t mean it literally, i.e. start pumping rounds into guys in your own foxhole due to some perceived lack in their fortitude.

Owl_Eagle

”Guns Before Butter.”

36 posted on 02/12/2002 10:53:53 AM PST by End Times Sentinel
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To: truenospinzone
The black and white version is "I am an American, so I fly an American flag, pray every day, and love my president" or "Because I don't do any of those things, I am not a true patriotic American".

How about you just don't backbite the country that gave you these freedoms and avoid crashing planes into buildings or tacitly encouraging those who do

The middle ground is "I love this country and want to see the awful acts of 9-11 dealt with, but I think there's room for debate regarding who constitutes 'they' and what exactly we should do to 'them'."

Cool...

When I burn your house down we can engage in a meaningful dialog about how you actually deserved to have your house burned down and how much money you should give me for doing it.

37 posted on 02/12/2002 10:56:13 AM PST by Cogadh na Sith
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To: vannrox
HE WHO IS "MIDDLE OF THE ROAD" WILL EVENTUALLY BE RUN OVER.

He who is middle of the road, gets hit by traffic going both ways.

Owl_Eagle

”Guns Before Butter.”

38 posted on 02/12/2002 10:58:41 AM PST by End Times Sentinel
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To: vannrox
"Only losers commit desperate acts of suicide while sympathizing with American enemies."

What's Clemence's problem? This is true.

39 posted on 02/12/2002 11:03:27 AM PST by RichInOC
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To: chookter
Or how about when you burn my house down, the law punishes you and anyone that we know directly helped you, instead of you, anyone that we know helped you, and anyone and everyone who shares your religion or aesthetic qualities?
40 posted on 02/12/2002 11:06:53 AM PST by truenospinzone
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