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To: HamiltonJay
No I did not say lifestyle has no meaning, I said lifestyle and occassional activity are not one in the same. You assumed that "swingers" must be part of a swinging lifestyle and that it is detrimental to their family. My point and perhaps I did not make it clear, though I believe I did, is that a lifestyle is not defined by an occassional act. I have no idea how often or frequently the Van Damn's engaged in swinging activities if at all. However the studies I have read on this topic find that swingers on average engage in their activites about once a month, hardley enough to be considered a "lifestyle", and are generally pretty average and normal in all other aspects of their lives. Just because someone is a "swinger" does not mean they are part of a "swinging lifestyle" just as the fact I am a biker, but certainly not part of a biking "lifestyle".

I have to wonder if you have truely thought about what you have said here?

In the majority of weddings performed in the United States, the bride and groom take a vow to cleave only to each other and have no other. A monogamous marriage, by the VERY definition means that each has only ONE mate. To break that vow and have intimacy with another is called adultry. But hey...if it's only once a month...what's the big deal?? It's a very big deal to the other partner.

A monogamous lifestyle is one in which both partners intend to keep their vow of faithfulness to each other. Their typical way of life would be to stay faithful to each other. An isolated and unseen incidence of adultry would be an "event" in an otherwise monogamous lifestyle. An event that may have catastropic consequences.

On the other hand, a swinging marriage can not be defined as a monogamous relationship because the spouses have planned and acted on a decision to NOT be faithful only to each other. Thus, their typical way of life, or lifestyle, would be that to engage in intimacy with multiple persons..be it once a day, once a week...or once a month. Their typical way of life is multiple sexual partners, wheras the typical way of life for a monogamous couple is only one sexual partner.

That our society, as a whole, agrees with this is shown by depicting swinging, spousal sharing, et all...as "an alternative lifestyle." I call it adultry.

883 posted on 02/14/2002 10:37:58 AM PST by Selara
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To: Selara
I have to wonder if you have truely thought about what you have said here?

I have thought very much about what I have said here, and as I will point out, your attempts to change the subject make me question what thoughts or motives are in your responses.

In the majority of weddings performed in the United States, the bride and groom take a vow to cleave only to each other and have no other. A monogamous marriage, by the VERY definition means that each has only ONE mate. To break that vow and have intimacy with another is called adultry. But hey...if it's only once a month...what's the big deal?? It's a very big deal to the other partner.

Ok, number one, majority, but not all. Number two, Your argument is now not that "swinging" is detrimental to family life, or that Adultery is detrimental? Because there are far more adulterers in this world than swingers. Do you wish to stick to the topic of discussion? Or just diatribe about judeo christian morality?

A monogamous lifestyle is one in which both partners intend to keep their vow of faithfulness to each other. Their typical way of life would be to stay faithful to each other. An isolated and unseen incidence of adultry would be an "event" in an otherwise monogamous lifestyle. An event that may have catastropic consequences.

No one is implying here that monogomous committed couples SHOULD go around humping others, this is not the crux of any logic or statement I have made here. But if we are going to digress to this, then you have to go into an entire other line of questioning and thoughts... which is which is worse, an open relationship, or cheating? And do you really want to have that debate? That certainly is not what I am discussing here.

On the other hand, a swinging marriage can not be defined as a monogamous relationship because the spouses have planned and acted on a decision to NOT be faithful only to each other. Thus, their typical way of life, or lifestyle, would be that to engage in intimacy with multiple persons..be it once a day, once a week...or once a month. Their typical way of life is multiple sexual partners, wheras the typical way of life for a monogamous couple is only one sexual partner.

True, they are going to engage sexually in different practices than a monogamous couple, I am not debating this. What I am debating or challenging you on is the assumption that because they do have sexual activities outside of the norm that this directly has a huge impact on the non sexual day to day activities and relationships, respect etc of the the family or couple in question. So far you have offered nothing to support this supposition. Just that you believe it to be wrong.

That our society, as a whole, agrees with this is shown by depicting swinging, spousal sharing, et all...as "an alternative lifestyle." I call it adultry.

Number one, I did not bring up the term Lifestyle, that was you. Number two it is adultery, I am not saying it is not, so I fail to see what point you are trying to make here. You can call it what you want, adultery, fornication or whatever other psuedonym you wish. That does not change the fundamental point, that being that you have drawn a conclusion, not based on any facts, but your own morality that this is a bad thing to be doing, and you have every right to believe it is a bad thing to be doing. However, what you have not provided is any sort of logical justification for how such activities defacto undermine or harmfully affect all other aspects of a relationship/family.

Understand I am not advocating swinging, but I am not going to sit by and watch people label others as bad parents or bad human beings or unable to raise chilren or to have any morals simply because someone has for whatever reason engaged in sexual activities outside the "public norms". I have been around and seen to much to allow such drivel to be posted unchallenged. You originally asked how can something that parents hide from their children not be bad? I believe I have stated the case quite well that it is reasonable to believe that things kept from children need not be bad or detrimimental.

Even within the confines of monogomy you have kink and perversion... if a husband likes to be dressed up like a girl and dominated by his wife as part of their sexual activities or be feminized by his wife sexually does that mean they are unable to have a stable home and be loving parents? They are still monogomous. It seems to me your argument is more to do with the fact you view it as wrong or immorral and then attempt a jump to that it must have negative impact in other areas as well... but have offered nothing of substance to base this on.

884 posted on 02/14/2002 11:09:51 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: Selara
There you go, talking common sense again. Didn't you know that can get you in trouble on a thread like this? ;)
885 posted on 02/14/2002 12:13:10 PM PST by MizSterious
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