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"Could it be that you're doing a little projecting here?"

I am going to let that one slide, that's way below you, dangerously aproaching the status of others on this thread.

I could not help but noticing however, that you did not reply to the fact that what you told me was information you picked up from posted news articles, where in fact rumours, and you have been in fact spreading unsubstantiated garbage.

19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all [men, both] free and bond, both small and great.

19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Here it is in English........why I chose my screenname.

People go around promoting this hippy flower child version of Jesus............"hey man, you want to continue living in your sins, and teaching evil things, well, it's all groooovy, 'cuz Jesus loves you man, and anything you do is "okay with Big J", dig?"

No friend, he came the first time to tell us what He expected from us; to instruct us in the Way of the Word.........next time it won't be so pleasant.

So go ahead and continue with your moral relativity. Teach others the same nonsense.

Luis, if it turns out that what I've been reading, and repeating here, is untrue, I will apologize, as well I should. What I said about projecting is not really beneath me. You stated that you wouldn't be surprised to see us write that the child being taken was some kind of divine retribution--a thought that simply horrifies me. You are projecting certain beliefs onto me (and possibly others) that couldn't be further from the truth. Now will you apologize for that? SneakyPete not only misquotes me, but suggests I think all sex is evil. Again, nothing could be further from the truth.

Note to debate participants: if we find out we're wrong about something, it's okay to apologize. Several points gained, no points lost.

Meanwhile, having said "my say" about what I think of the van Dam kidnapping, I'm going to wait before saying more until the facts start coming out. And they will, probably not only via the news, but also through books, teevee movies, and articles in Vanity Fair (or some such). Luis, if you're right about none of this being true, I will return to this thread and apologize.

Pete, I'm not apologizing to you for any reason because you were dead wrong about everything you said about me. You assumed things that are so far off-base, one might almost wonder if you're hallucinating. You don't know me. You don't know anything about me, and you've just proven it.