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To: EricOKC
Sorry, I do not buy, and will not buy, that the fact that they were "swingers" is incidental.

Pardon my "rant" in advance, buy if they had not been swingers, and deeply involved in that lifestyle, they would not have had people coming into the house at these hours ... if they had done anything at all in a faithful, monogomous lifestyle, it would have been them doing it in their own home and the other associations, particularly by the wife that night, would not have occurred ... and if they had, she certainly would not have brought them home ... but then, that would not be a normal, faithful monogamous lifestyle either.

Eric ... I don't care what your lifestyle is. You are free to live it as long as you do not violate others rights. But that does not mean it is moral and it does not mean that it is "right" and it certainly does not mean I will accept it as such ... even though I recognize that there are varing degrees of people involved in the lifestyle ... those varying degrees are simply to me, varying degrees of immorality, just as anyone involved in any form of adultery is.

The key issue with respect to the traditional lifestyle of marriage is one of fidelity and faithfulness. When the fidelity line is crossed, whether behind one's back, or whether with full agreement, then fidelity is simply gone and any faithfulness is made a mockery of ... in fact, at that point, an individual is only being faithful to themselves and their own passions IMHO. Adultery is not an issue of doing it when someone isn't looking, or when someone doesn't care ... it is an issue of doing it with someone to whom you are not married, period.

Again, I didn't care to know your lifestyle ... and I am not going to try and "force" you one way or another within the constraint of the infringement of other's rights. But please, don't try and pass on this notion that it is moral, that it is somehow faithful and has anything to do with traditional marriage vows simply because you both "agree", ot that it can be anything remotely related or equivalent to them ... clearly it is not. And, in as much as it does not, my own feeling and opinion is that it is very unhealthy ... and I believe from a religious perspective that it is simply wrong and will lead individuals and societies that partake in it to ruin.

Therefore, I (meaning me personally) would not call it marriage in the traditional, moral and spiritual sense of the word. Although your agreement may be mutual ... and it may be legal ... it is certainly not what I would call a marriage based on vows of fidelity and faithfulness before God ... and it is the type of thing, like many other vices, that is practiced by the majority of society, will ruin us as a nation and as a people.

The traditional values in this country and the by and large acceptance of them by the majority of people is what keeps us strong ... morally, mentally and physically as a people. Strong traditional marriages make for strong families (this is presuming that the fidelity and faithfulness are maintained). The more that breaks down, the more those societal strengths will ebb away and the more incidents like this we will have. So I pray, despite the fact that you are free to live such a lifestyle, that it nevers becomes the norm.

Finally, I believe that a very large part of this girl's disappearance and possible death is a result of a lifestyle that by its nature is unfaithful and filled with infedility. And once those values are breached, other more glaring and starling dangers enter in ... unfortunately, such dangers are very stark and unforgiving to innocents like these children.

No need for a rely, this is just my own (rather lengthy) opinion, but one I do all in my power to pass on to my own five kids and the scouts I teach and anyone willing to listen.

417 posted on 02/11/2002 9:40:16 PM PST by Jeff Head
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To: Jeff Head
Hello Jeff
Your entire post was so well said, that I had a hard time picking out anything to comment on. Yes, adultry is adultry, if known or unknown. However, what stands out for me in this day and age, is the need to defend behavior that is not the norm, and say it is the norm.

Therefore, I (meaning me personally) would not call it marriage in the traditional, moral and spiritual sense of the word. Although your agreement may be mutual ... and it may be legal ... it is certainly not what I would call a marriage based on vows of fidelity and faithfulness before God ... and it is the type of thing, like many other vices, that is practiced by the majority of society, will ruin us as a nation and as a people.

There is almost a militancy in the defense of harmful, or potentially harmful behaviors, and a need to put down the normal behavior.

Indeed, it is become rather common, to call names of "prude", "raciast", "right wing ranter" in an attempt to shut people up, rather than to seriously face the issue or question.

Your post was refreshing.

418 posted on 02/11/2002 9:53:03 PM PST by Selara
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