An Astounding Remark

Future of Freedom Foundation ^ | Sheldon Richman

[SteamshipTime]

Come on Howlin. At least attempt a counter-thesis supported by premises.

[gjenkins]

A blind patriot would know nothing more and expect nothing less from others.

[Pistias]

If the thread should be pulled, IMHO, it's because of the poor example of freetiquette, not the subject matter. If Ashcroft is a threat to liberty, it must be discovered and spoken of in forum. If he is not, he must be defended from those with an interest in seeing him unjustly accused of being such. Either way, the topic is kosher and worth pursuing--the child's-play is not.

[Jefferson Adams]

I've learned to try to find the humor in posts similar to those I was mocking. The alternative is gouging ones own eyes out from the frustation of watching the growing masses march in lockstep, in fear of "saying something that is wrong."

I know. I do too, but it's a sad kind of humor, isn't it?

[The Iron Duke]

It is nice to read someone on this thread who speaks sense instead of knee jerk blather.

[francisandbeans]

I concur. I openly asked for an honest defense of his statements (and in fairness there have been a few). I purposely didn't ping ashcroft supporter Dane for the reason I know is that he had none. I was hopng Marple or Howlin would be able to. Instead however, they diverted immediately into insulting those of us they disagree with and i regret being dragged into that cesspool and participating.

[francisandbeans]

Again agreed. We disagree but you served as an excellent example.

[maturin]

I'm a Tarheel too, and I can't believe all this crap is coming from a native of the Old North State.

My great grandfather had to ask permission from the occupying Union captain to go to medical school in New York. Permission was denied, so he had to take to the woods and sneak through the boarder states to get his medical education. (As you'll no doubt remember as a Tarheel, they CLOSED the University of North Carolina here in Chapel Hill for twenty years. And in the three years following the war, in the enlightened period euphemistically known as Reconstruction, thousands DIED of STARVATION!!

Yes, we remember true tyranny down here all right, i.e. the sainted Mr. Lincoln, who suspended habeas corpus, muzzled the press, and even arrested the duly elected legislature of Maryland before they could vote on cessession.

I don't know where all these fantasies about tyranny are coming from. If you're paranoid, you can never go too far wrong by looking to the Left.

My father had a close journalist friend, frinstance, who was JAILED by FDR in '42 for the duration of WWII for merely suggesting in print that FDR's IDOL, good, kindly old Uncle Joe Stalin was a tyrant who had murdered hundreds of thousands (later known to be many millions) of his own people(!!)

For God's sake, what would it take to wake people up to the fact that WE WERE SAVAGED by these savages, and they are far from finished with us!!

Get on a plane if you're up for it and go up there and tell it to all the survivors of 9-11. Yes, we've had tyranny in this country before, and it has ALWAYS come at the hands of the Politically Correct, whether red-eyed Abolitionists bastards or Red Loving Democrats.

Calm down. Take it easy.

We need to get the bastards among us and they are none of them Americans. NONE OF THEM... A no-brainer...

All the best,

[Hoosier Patriot]

but it's a sad kind of humor, isn't it?

Indeed it is. I find only hollow enjoyment of such. But, given the alternative, I feel it is by far the lesser of the two evils, and a much healthier way of venting those frustrations than crawling into the pit with those who simply cannot, shall I say, "see past next week."

[jwalsh07]

"To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists,"

Would you mind telling me you disagree ith in this statement?

I'm not interested in what you ascribe to be Ashcrofts motivation for making it but with the statement itself.

[jwalsh07]

Pardon the typos.

[francisandbeans]

If I were to seperate it from the man I would say this:

It is a false statement, and a statement that lacks the depth of debate and allows for opponents to be discounted by using 911 as a means to silence them.

[AUgrad]

You may have meant he was talking about a general type of person. However, it sounds like you are referring to the people protesting conditions at x-ray specifically. I'm not a grammar nazi so I'll take the blame for misunderstanding your post. My apologies.

[Dane]

Instead however, they diverted immediately into insulting those of us they disagree with and i regret being dragged into that cesspool and participating

LOL! This was your first response to me on this thread and your response was for my remark that there isn't a dime's worth of difference between the ACLU and Libertarians.

To: Dane

How come when the village assembles, the idiot is always last to get here?

80 posted on 2/6/02 7:21 AM Pacific by francisandbeans [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies | Report Abuse ]

You are a hypocrite.

[francisandbeans]

They meant Howlin and Marple.

I discounted you immediately in that post.

[Jefferson Adams]

"To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists,"

Would you mind telling me you disagree with in this statement?

Let me have a shot at it, OK?

In a nutshell, if they were truly just "phantoms," it would be one thing. But they are not. The PATRIOT Act and the Office of Homeland Security have seriously compromised what little of the freedoms aour founders tried so hard to guarantee us that we have left. And Ashcroft is saying that if we tell people about that loss of freedom, we are aiding terrorists. Combine that with his statement the other day that said, essentially, they will arrest people that they "suspect of terrorism" - when the PATRIOT Act says that those who speak out against the government may be considered terrorists - and you've got something very scary indeed. Connect the dots. If you tell people about how our freedoms are being taken away by what "our" government is doing, you are aiding terrorists and can be arrested.

This is the very antithesis of the 1st Amendment that Ashcroft swore to uphold and defend.

[Mojo-jo-jo]

Sorry, doesn't work that way.If you don't like this country, work for change. Which is exactly what many are doing despite the objection of the sheep.

Really...thanks for the clue.

Is THAT what the purpose of this thread is? Or is just being used by some as nice, intellectual reasoning to bash a relatively good man in public service (Ashcroft) by taking a statement out of context? ("To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists,")

In times of war things change. Most sheeple actually comprehend by now that there are millions of illegals in this country, some Middle Eastern, that may actually be in this country for the sole purpose of destroying it. So the powers that be (who enforce the law) are FINALLY taking measures (bound by LAW, not man) to root out these people. Its that simple....nothing more.

That is change. Liberal sheeple dont understand that (as expressed by a select few in this thread)

[Dane]

I discounted you immediately in that post.

Yep, becuase you couldn't discount the fact that there is not a dime's worth of difference between the ACLU and Libertarians.

So you hurl insults.

Hypocrite.

[FedfromNoVa]

"To those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: Your tactics only aid terrorists"

"those who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty" Let's see, he's talking about idiots like the ACLU and antiwar.com, etc., scaring average law-abiding Americans with "phantoms of lost liberty," i.e., non-sensical hysteria about illegals being rounded up, the FBI having an easier time wiretapping suspected terrorist cells, etc. "Your tactics only aid terrorists" Gee, if we all panic and freeze in terror and also criticize the Bush administration for doing something, to the point where it begins to second-guess itself and not act, isn't that what terrorists want?

I'm sorry, but this quote isn't worthy of the hysterics on this thread. Flame away, but think before you do. What was Clinton's first response to Oklahoma City? Trying to further restrict handgun ownership! Bush may not be perfect, but he's not Beelzebubba either. When Bush tells us to put some ice on it, then I'll reconsider.