Replies

The laws of Thermodynamics are violated by life forms, a manifestation which virtually defines life--and, by another name: Negative Entropy.

There is no such thing as "negative entropy" in thermodynamics; entropy is an absolute metric of order. I strongly suggest you look up the "Gibb's Free Energy Equation" and study it carefully. After you are done studying it, you can come back and explain to me how biology violates thermodynamics. The mathematics is relatively simple, so you shouldn't have a problem. The Gibb's equation defines the relationship between enthalpy and entropy, and also makes it bloody obvious how reductions in entropy can occur, like they do in biological systems. There are millions of examples of local entropy reversal in non-living systems as well; it is not a special feature of biology.

If you don't understand Gibb's equation, you don't understand thermodynamics. Period.

Entropy is the tendency for reactive systems to reach equillibrium and, hence, become stable and intert.

This is an incorrect definition of entropy. If you are using this as the definition, it is no surprise that your conclusions are wrong. Don't make up definitions, use the ones provided by the people who developed the mathematics. The nature of entropy is a complex subject in its own right and not something you can learn in two sentences written at a fifth grade reading level. Do yourself a favor and stop using the "made-for-people-who-don't-care-to-really-understand" definition.

Negative entropy is the amazing "life force" that resists entropy and requires, among other things, exogenous energy supply and the ability to use it. Once either one gives way...then the laws of thermodynamics do most certainly apply.

If you don't know that your magical "life force" is an obvious consequence of THE equation of thermodynamics, then you don't know diddly squat about thermodynamics. Let me repeat: Learn about the Gibb's Free Energy equation. If you don't understand that (and you clearly don't), then you are inadequately informed on thermodynamics. It is one of the fundamental equations, and anyone with first year algebra can show why it allows the spontaneous existence of biological systems.

In my neck of the woods it's late and cold, and I am about to retire for the night. I'll be back tomorrow morning to address the rather significant issues you have raised.

Just one, final, parting shot:

I'll show you that we're both correct.

Well, that was a bit long-winded for a civilian audience.

There's no law saying entropy must always flow downhill, anymore than the law of gravity prevents oceans from having waves. Local entropy can flow backwards away from disorder. Only total entropy is a one way ticket.

Last night I said: "The laws of Thermodynamics are violated by life forms, a manifestation which virtually defines life--and, by another name: Negative Entropy."

And you went ballistic.

I said I'd be back--try reading this:

The word, "entropy," is functional in three realms, according to most sources. And they are: 1. Thermodynamics, 2. Statistics and 3. "Laws of the Universe"

In my posts I am not appealing to understanding regarding thermodynamics, but rather the application regarding statistics in closed systems and, in particular, closed systems which renew themselves.

A living organism is a relatively closed, or isolated, ongoing chemical prosess. Being closed, it would achieve inertness when the fuel ran out---entropy.

My contention is that the closed chemically-reactive systems, aka: life forms, forestall entropy ( e.g., inertness) by ingestiing more energy than they expend.