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To: PatrickHenry
It's a loaded question. You want to see an example of random speciation, when all we will ever see, in a human lifespan, is random mutation. The cumulative effects of the sometimes-successful mutations will, over time, generate a new species

The fact that the question is difficult doesn't make it loaded, nor unfair.

I agree with your comments regarding obervations beyond a human lifespan, and I'm not recommending we table discussion untill enough lifespans have elapsed to make the call.

What I am suggesting is that science be more careful in its conclusions and qualify its statements better. Here's what I posted at #20 on this thread:

Confirmation or "proof" of scientific hypotheses depends on the repetition of experimental results. It is the nature of some hypotheses to be outside the realm of experimentation, and I think Evolution is one. Small scale experimental standards of scientific proof aren't really applicable to issues of vast time scales such as evolution or cosmology.

That's why I suggested the phrase "Postulate of Evolution" above. "Big Bang Postulate" would be another.

Unfair?


199 posted on 02/04/2002 8:40:43 AM PST by Sabertooth
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To: Sabertooth
Confirmation or "proof" of scientific hypotheses depends on the repetition of experimental results.

Well, that's a partial truth. It certainly holds if you ask me to prove that water is made of 2 parts hydrogen and 1 part oxygen. I can demonstrate that, all day long. However, that kind of demonstration isn't possible, nor is it expected, in areas of science that require discovery of past events. Examples are geology (we can't re-create the Grand Canyon); and evolution (we can't re-create man from an amoeba). A more everyday example is criminal detection, as we can't re-create OJ killing Nicole. But in these historical matters, we are not helpless. We have the capacity to look at presently discoverable evidence (or clues, if you will). And we can frame perfectly rational hypotheses regarding how such clues came to be created. A good example is in examining a corpse to see the cause of death. We can't kill the person all over again, but it can be very scientifically demonstrated as to how the wounds (or whatever) happened. This is indeed science, even if some people claim it is not.

Further, an hypothesis developed in an historical science can be tested, because it does indeed lead to predictions. To continue with the crime analogy, if the working hypothesis is that the butler did it, you can then predict that the butler will have been in town at the time of the crime, and will not have a reliable alibi (sp?). In evolution, it can be predicted that if all living species today evolved from earlier species, there will never be discovered a fossil of a "modern" species which existed prior to a time when its ancestral stock existed. In other words, no human fossils wlll be found in the age of dinosaurs. These predictions are borne out every time a new fossil is found, and thus evolution is being constantly tested every day.

211 posted on 02/04/2002 10:44:41 AM PST by PatrickHenry
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