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To: Southack
that misinterpretation of our Constitution is ONE of the things wrong with Libertarians

Libertarians think we're still living under the Articles of Confederation, before the Constitution was ratified. The Constitution clearly grants gobs and gobs of power to the FEDERAL government and NOT the states. It was written entirely to STOP the states from exercising rights, like the right to coin their own money, or cheat other states in business. If libertarians don't like the Constitution, they should say so, but they shouldn't pretend it means something other than it does.

334 posted on 02/01/2002 3:47:51 PM PST by xm177e2
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To: xm177e2
Libertarians think we're still living under the Articles of Confederation, before the Constitution was ratified.

The phrase "general welfare" appeared in the Articles, too.

The Constitution clearly grants gobs and gobs of power to the FEDERAL government and NOT the states. It was written entirely to STOP the states from exercising rights, like the right to coin their own money, or cheat other states in business.

I'm fine with that (although that hardly seems to qualify as "gobs and gobs" of power, but maybe my perspective is off because I live in post-New Deal America).

342 posted on 02/01/2002 4:24:32 PM PST by A.J.Armitage
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To: xm177e2
Libertarians think we're still living under the Articles of Confederation, before the Constitution was ratified. The Constitution clearly grants gobs and gobs of power to the FEDERAL government and NOT the states. It was
written entirely to STOP the states from exercising rights, like the right to coin their own money, or cheat other
states in business. If libertarians don't like the Constitution, they should say so, but they shouldn't pretend it means
something other than it does.
 


 

Could you go back and read it again please.  I believe
you'll find you've gotten it exactly backwards.  The Founders
realized the Articles of Confederation weren't working
and they needed a centralized government but the U. S.
Constitution was drafted to define and limit the power
of the Federal Government and thus assure that the
States and more importantly the People retained their
unalienable rights endowed by their Creator and declared
in Our Declaration of Independence.  Americans had
already suffered under an oppressive government
by the King and Parliament.  The text itself proves this.
For example in:

Section. 8.

Clause 1: The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and
provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be
uniform throughout the United States;

They did not say:  Clause 1:  The individual states will not have the power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and
Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties,
Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Clause 2: To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

They did not say:  Clause 2:  The individual states will not have the power to borrow Money on the credit of the
United States;

Clause 3: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

They did not say:  Clause 3:  The individual states will not have the power to regulate Commerce with foreign Nations,
and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

Clause 4: To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

They did not say:  Clause 4:  The individual states will not have the power to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

Clause 5: To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

They did not say:  Clause 5:  The individual states will not have the power to coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Clause 6: To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

They did not say:  Clause 6:  The individual states will not have the power to provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

Clause 7: To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

They did not say:  Clause 7:  The individual states will not have the power to establish Post Offices and post Roads;

Clause 8: To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

They did not say:  Clause 8:  The individual states will not have the power to promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

Clause 9: To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

They did not say:  Clause 9:  The individual states will not have the power to constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

Clause 10: To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

They did not say:  Clause 10:  The individual states will not have the power to define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

Clause 11: To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

They did not say:  Clause 11:  The individual states will not have the power to declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

Clause 12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

They did not say:  Clause 12:  The individual states will not have the power to raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years; ...etc.

Or for example in the Bill of Rights:

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

I believe the last one is pretty clear.

360 posted on 02/01/2002 10:19:02 PM PST by higgmeister
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