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**Breaking*** Document found in Afghanistan confirms airline attack on nuclear power plant
CNN Breaking news ^ | 31 JAN 02 | dcbryan1

Posted on 01/31/2002 12:09:53 PM PST by DCBryan1

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TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: energylist
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To: It'salmosttolate
Big font bold-italic non-paragraph-broken center-justified random-length lines of faux King James English are for all intents and purposes illegible.
281 posted on 01/31/2002 4:11:29 PM PST by Don Joe
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To: Brandon
At pennies on the dollar. The P-A cap on damage is unrealistically low.

Cow chips. If anything, the liability limits are unrealistically high. LWR technology results in very low probability for maximum credible accidents. Even if the worst happens, you'd get some local damage, in and around the plant site, but unless the media and anti-nuke kooks start stirring up and panicking the sheeple, large-scale effects are unlikely to approach the limits of P-A liability.

What are you saying is paid at pennies on the dollar? The insurance premiums? Sure, and if you know anything about insurance you will know that this is the case for any kind of liability coverage. I just renewed my automobile insurance. In my state, for the kind of cars I drive, the rates were in the couple of hundred dollar range for coverages ranging into the hundreds of thousands of dollars of liability. IOW, a penny or two on the dollar. Why? Well, its just the way liability insurance works. Check it out, if you are old enough to have to pay your way on any kind of liability insurance, and the idea of pooling coverage and spreading risk. Its a neat idea, and one of the positive outcomes of capitalism and free markets. Its just amazing...

282 posted on 01/31/2002 4:19:01 PM PST by chimera
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To: Diddle E. Squat
The risk I was referring to was that to which you are normally exposed to driving in traffic. Statistics are quite robust for risks of highway travel. Likewise, risks from radiation exposure, both for acute and cumulative dose, are known. You compare the two. In this case, you run a greater risk from fatal traffic accidents putting a relatively large population of people on the roads, than you do sitting at home and taking whatever low-level expoures might come your way.

Now, most people instinctively recoil at such a thought. After all, the anti-nuke kooks and presstitutes always tell us that "there is no safe level of radiation exposure" (which is a lie) so everyone "knows" that radiation is much, much more dangerous than driving on the roads. Yeah, everyone knows that, except the people who know and understand the science. We know that risk is risk and it doesn't matter what the causative agent might be. If you get a 10 millirem exposure, which adds maybe 10% to your annual dose from natural background (not even counting the sometimes much greater exposures from medical procedures), and add that into your cumulative exposure for an average lifetime, the increased risks become vanishingly small, far below the threshold necessary to sort out the effects in an exposed group from "background" effects, things like fatal illness brought on by other factors, accidents risks from lifestyle choices, even commonly-accepted risks we face everyday, such as accidents in the home (fires, falls, choking, drowning, etc).

283 posted on 01/31/2002 4:31:32 PM PST by chimera
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To: agitator
Hanging around TMI was like climbing into an x-ray booth, turning it on, and sitting there for a week with the machine running. No thanks..

BTW, what the hey is "an x-ray booth"? I have some experience in nuclear medicine (going on 25 years now) and I have never heard of such a device. We have x-ray rooms and portable x-ray units, CAT scanners and MRIs, soft x-ray, hard x-ray, and linacs, but nothing in the way of a "booth" for x-rays. Is that something you heard somewhere, or just made up...?

284 posted on 01/31/2002 4:40:29 PM PST by chimera
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To: Freedom'sWorthIt
As a 35 year pilot, I have confidence that no aircraft large enough will get past the combined attention of our fighter pilots and air traffic control anywhere near our nuclear facilities. It's a rag-head sweet-weed pipe dream.
285 posted on 01/31/2002 4:40:33 PM PST by Committed
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To: It'salmosttolate
Don't read into things and then accuse others of your own creation.

If that was not your intent, my apologies, but the implication of saying that the source of terrorism was CNN and FR 'TERROR HAS ALREADY STRICKEN via CNN and FreeRepublic' is that the terrorists themselves are not the source. I sometimes have problems with clarity of intent myself, we have to remember we are posting to a bunch of strangers, in many cases. Not everyone knows you well enough to understand unclear messages. As I say, this is an error I make myself, so this is meant as a suggestion, rather than criticism.

286 posted on 01/31/2002 4:57:26 PM PST by Lucius Cornelius Sulla
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To: Freedom'sWorthIt
Anti aircraft batteries around every American nuclear power plant? Why would that be so hard to do? 3 posted on 1/31/02 1:12 PM Pacific by Freedom'sWorthIt [ Post Reply

DITTO !!

287 posted on 01/31/2002 5:03:07 PM PST by timestax
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To: East Bay Patriot
"If we don't gain control of this immigration nightmare, seal our borders, and round up those that are here by racially profiling them, we are - all of us - going to be very, very sorry"

You are so right. To me it seems as plain as can be, and yet here we are, strip searching your grandmothers in the airports while young men who LOOK suspicious walk onto planes with explosives in their shoes because we dare not "profile" because some Muslim nutjob might get offended. What ever happened to "who the h*** cares. This is America and if you don't like the way we do things get the h*** out and if you stay shut the h*** up."

We have things in this country a darned site more important to worry about than some whiney ass foreigner or liberal socialist getting offended. These *^$%^@#* have been offending ME and I dare say MOST of America for WAY too long. Let's stop being afraid of being called racists. If they want to call us racist for exercising common sense and good judgement, so be it. Let them think what they want to. I know I'm not a racist, if "racist" means disliking somebody because of their race or ethnicity. I really could care less what color somebody is. What I do care about is if someone is a good and decent person. We have to stop playing these ridiculous semantics games and call a spade a spade. And if anybody doesn't like it, oh well. Maybe somewhere down the line they will have grandchildren who will be thanking God we took a stand instead of wondering why we didn't.

288 posted on 01/31/2002 5:14:40 PM PST by sweetliberty
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To: Committed, Timestax
That sounds good - glad to hear it - but why take a chance? with what is at stake? I am just asking.
289 posted on 01/31/2002 5:16:02 PM PST by Freedom'sWorthIt
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To: It'salmosttolate
what a bunch of crap............i would not give this a second look ............i see there is not much mention of Klinton .........mmmmmmmmmmmmm i wonder why........its all bush..................
290 posted on 01/31/2002 5:49:35 PM PST by angcat
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To: agitator
Hanging around TMI was like climbing into an x-ray booth, turning it on, and sitting there for a week with the machine running. No thanks..

Well, I thought it might be worth a closer look at this just to see how outrageous a claim this really is. First, lets run a few numbers on what we know about x-ray exposure in diagnostic procedures.

Well-established dosimetry methods will show that the average chest x-ray results in a whole-body expoure of about 30 millirems, depending on filter settings and accelerating potential. Using reasonable quality factors and kerma for converting from tissue-equivalent dose to gamma exposure rate, we get something in the range of 20 to 30 milliroentgens (mR) exposure. Lets go with the higher number of 30 to be conservative.

Now, the beam is only on for a few seconds, maybe two or three, to get this dose. Again, to be safe and overestimate the rate, lets use two seconds. Combining this with the observed exposure, we get and exposure rate for diagnostic machines of about 15 mR/sec, or, converting to the more familiar hourly rate, 54 R/hr.

Now, assuming your "x-ray booth" is just a colloquial term for the conveyor x-ray unit that you see in airport security stations, we will assume, not knowing otherwise, that these machines are similar to medical units. This is reasonable; they are commercially-produced devices that use similar technology. So, you are saying that being around TMI udirng the course of an accident was like being exposed to a source producing an exposure rate in the range of 50 R/hr, and that for days at a time?

Well, if that is so, it is totally outrageous. First, if it were, at that rate, the 24 hour exposure to an individual would be about 1200-1500 rems. You said the exposure time would be one week. That would place the acute dose in the range of close to 30,000 rem. That is a 100% lethal exposure. Since the LD50/60 (look that one up) for human beings is about 450 rem, your assumption would result in everyone dying in that area within about 3 weeks, more likely within a few days. Here's a clue: NO ONE DIED. Further, verified, documented exposure rates at the plant boundary at the peak of the releases were in the millirems per hour range. And you say they were in the tens of R per hour range? Well, you're only off by several orders of magnitude, which, for a Luddite, I guess isn't too bad...

Bottom line, leave the science to scientists. Well, now that we have utterly demolished this incredible bit of sophistry, and other fables to bring up?

291 posted on 01/31/2002 6:00:30 PM PST by chimera
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To: The Energizer
God bless the brave passengers on Flight 93.
292 posted on 01/31/2002 6:20:01 PM PST by CobaltBlue
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To: chimera
CNN showing excerpts of Osama bin laden tape now!
293 posted on 01/31/2002 6:20:37 PM PST by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Freedom'sWorthIt
Chance???We want to stop those islamic/muslum/arab monkeys (no caps on purpose) from even thinking of messing with our nuclear plants. I know they are suicidal, but we can shoot off the jetliners wings, and force them down somewhere else besides the nuclear plant.
294 posted on 01/31/2002 6:20:55 PM PST by timestax
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To: chimera
Excuse me Mr. or Mrs. Obnoxious Authority, but the dose RATE (not the total accumulated dose, the dose RATE PER HOUR) within 10 miles of TMI during the first week of the "event" that I heard on the radio at the time was on the order of 150mR PER HOUR. Now if you can show me with something other than your pompous imagination that what I heard on the radio from a government official was incorrect, then I'll agree that what I said overstated the total accumulated dose. In either event, anybody that sticks around to be exposed to radioactive effluvia from a melting nuke at any level is an idiot. On the other hand, 150mR/hr x 24hrs x 7days = 25.2R. You must know that effects noticeable to the untrained occur in 50% of the exposed population at 50R. Frankly, you can have that because I'm not interested.
295 posted on 01/31/2002 6:36:24 PM PST by agitator
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To: Loopy
I agree, me too;)
296 posted on 01/31/2002 7:10:38 PM PST by seeker41
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To: agitator
Oh, and by the way, for anybody that believes the CRAP that nobody died as a result of TMI, "pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

Read this:

http://www.ratical.org/radiation/SecretFallout/SF.html#TOC

297 posted on 01/31/2002 7:22:54 PM PST by agitator
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To: agitator
I for one, would never argue against being concerned about long term exposure to radioactivity from any source. I was born in a little town called Richland Washington. You may be familiar with the Hartford facility. My father worked at the plant. He worked for a contractor. We moved about two years after I was born. My parents often spoke to many friends that they had in the area and stayed in touch for many years.

Now to the nitty gritty as they say. My father died at age 65 from lukemia. My mother died at 67 of lung and pancreatic cancer. All of those friends passed well before they did. Mostly in their 50s, and all of cancers. The last passed about 10 years ago of lukemia, the same variety my dad had.

There are many articles regarding the total elimination of a town and surrounding area. The government has been quietly paying some of the complainers off, I believe. This stuff is nothing to play around with.

Plant safety is very good now but accidents do and have happened. Some we don't know about, Like the fallout that dropped over central Wisconsin from a test in the early 60s. I think I was 1960. The grade school I was attending fed us iodine tablets every day for months.

298 posted on 01/31/2002 8:22:48 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: wirestripper
Sorry I meant to write Hanford facility, not hartford. It's late..............................
299 posted on 01/31/2002 8:32:01 PM PST by Cold Heat
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To: Bernard Marx
I thought at the time that if I had a bomb to deliver I'd have about a 99% chance of success using a truck. This was some years back and I hope things have improved since but I doubt

About three weeks after the 11th, my old man was going to his favorite fishing hole a few miles away from a nuke plant. He was driving his big van and still had FL plates on it...suddenly, four black SUV's box him in and follow him for a couple miles, and pass on after he pulls into the Park entrance. They're not asleep anymore.

My boss used to work nuke security, too. He said they were mostly ex-Marines, and a bunch of harda$$es. But we still need to keep our eyes open.

300 posted on 01/31/2002 9:28:06 PM PST by Pistias
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