[freefly]

"A well educated population is a benefit for the nation as a whole."

The literacy rate was higher in this country before the schools "went public"

"Living in a society has certain costs which must be paid."

Somehow we managed quite well before income tax came along.
Not to mention all the rest of the overwhelming taxes we have levied on us these days.

"Representatives make decisions to tax in order to pay for those expenses."

Doesn't make it right. Or Constitutional.

"...it is not theft."

If I don't hand my money over (or allow it to be taken), then someone points a gun at me and not only takes it, but puts me in jail.
If it's not theft, it's close enough -whether there are "laws" that allow it or not.

"Socialism is not the same as a welfare state or a capitalistic state regulated by government or a representative republic. We have a combination of the latter two it is not socialistic."

Wiggle all you want. Our tax rate is outrageous and most of the money never makes it back to the citizens as a whole.
It is actually socialism/collectivism without the payback.

"You are one of those who makes broad inaccurate generalizations then calls one who doesn't agree "socialist, nazi or communist or collectivist" rather than trying to understand where you fail in your ideas or communicative ability."

You are one of those who attempt to complicate an issue so that the truth is obscured and people don't see what is really going on. I attempt to simplify it so that people can see and understand what is really happening. The fed takes our money and spends it on social programs...usually after skimming off a huge percentage to waste on government bureaucracy. THAT is the truth of the situation. You can attempt to hide it all you want, but it doesn't change the reality. I suspect you understand fully what you support, you just are unwilling to admit it.

"By your definition there could never be a society which is not "collectivistic."

We did quite well before fdr (a hard-core socialist) got into power.

Of course, if you hate taxation that much you could always go to a place more to your liking couldn't you?

I'd rather people like you that like it so much go someplace where you can give all your money to the government and get all the "services" that you deserve -instead of trying to turn THIS country into one of the failed socialist/collectivist/communist/whatever countries that justify taking their citizen's money in the name of "the public good".
Sounds to me as though you would love it. (As long as there are others to foot the bill.)

[justshutupandtakeit]

It is simply a lie that literacy rates were higher before there were public schools. There have been public schools in some parts of the nation from the beginning of the Republic. Please don't lie about these issues it only makes your arguments look even more foolish.

In the days when only the wealthy could afford an education no one cared since the vast majority of the population lived on farms and thus had little need of an education. Once urbanization became significant the need for education skyrocketed.

Income taxes are the only way that the enormous costs of a modern military can be paid. This is the lesson learned from the Civil War. And apparently forgotten by the hate-government cult.

In fact, it does make it constitutional. Freefly's definition of constitutional--Something freefly doesn't like.

We were not discussing the level of taxes (we might agree there) but the fact that they are not theft or that an individual has the right to nullify them.

Unfortunately for your argument in representative government representatives respond to the demands of their constituents for these programs. If more want them than don't then the reps. get re-elected and, if the courts don't rule otherwise they are constitutional.

Simplification rarely makes issues more comprehensible generally less. It is most often those who know least about an issue who complains about their opponent "complicating" things. Reality is very complicated only ideologies are simple (and wrong.)

Before FDR became president there were unpopular programs and taxes. In fact, almost as soon as the Republic was established there was opposition to unpopular programs and taxes.

How would you pay for the military without an income tax?

I prefer a government of laws so won't leave and realize that taxes are as inescapable as death if you want to live in a decent, civilized country since you apparently don't care the leaving should be done by you particularly since you don't believe we have a constitutional government but one that is "robbing" you. How can you live under such a tyrannical regime?