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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Heavens, no. If God has not predestined to regenerate a sinner, then you could preach the Gospel to him all day and he will never respond to it

Yet, you claim that if Sodom had seen the miracles they would have freely repented? How could they unless they had been Predestinated first. That is not what the Lord said. He said they would respond to the miracles

According to your system that is impossible. What you are doing is sneaking in Predestination as a given and are therefore begging the question

Either those cities could have responded to the call with more evidence or not. If predestination was the issue the amount of evidence becomes irrevelant.

786 posted on 01/23/2002 7:43:20 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: fortheDeclaration, the_doc, CCWoody, Jerry_M
Yet, you claim that if Sodom had seen the miracles they would have freely repented? How could they unless they had been Predestinated first.

Because God predestinates some to be regenerated by the Sovereign Grace which He works thorugh Gospel Preaching (e.g., the 3,000 immediately after Pentecost) and some to be regenerated by the Sovereign Grace which He works through Miracles. Calvinists do not deny this; we know that God has many Means of Grace, and He uses whatever suits His Purpose to accomplish His Decree.

That is not what the Lord said. He said they would respond to the miracles. According to your system that is impossible.

Nope. Had God seen fit to Predestine these people to Repent and be Saved, He could have used the Grace of Miracles to bring about their Repentance. In fact, Jesus says it is certain that they would have Repented, had God seen fit to display such miracles.

But God did not Purpose to predestine them to Repentance and Salvation, but rather to predestine them to Non-Repentance and Damnation. And so, he selected the Option (NON-performance of miracles) which would pre-determine the decision of Tyre and Sidon to NOT Repent, and be Damned.

And you have acknowledged that He knew what He was doing, what each Option entailed, and that He deliberately selected this option, and that their Non-Repentance was thus the pre-determined result of His decision, just as He foresaw.

What you are doing is sneaking in Predestination as a given and are therefore begging the question Either those cities could have responded to the call with more evidence or not. If predestination was the issue the amount of evidence becomes irrevelant.

On the contrary. God, who has designed the human soul, knows "how much" Grace and "what kind" of Grace will be sufficient to bring any man to Repentance.

And had God seen fit to Predestine these people to Repent and be Saved, He could have used the Grace of Miracles to bring about their Repentance. In fact, Jesus says it is certain that they would have Repented, had God seen fit to display such miracles.

But God did not Purpose to predestine them to Repentance and Salvation, but rather to predestine them to Non-Repentance and Damnation. And so, he selected the Option (NON-performance of miracles) which would pre-determine the decision of Tyre and Sidon to NOT Repent, and be Damned.

And you have acknowledged that He knew what He was doing, what each Option entailed, and that He deliberately selected this option, and that their Non-Repentance was thus the pre-determined result of His decision, just as He foresaw.

As I said -- give Tyre and Sidon all the free will and natural moral competence you like, and you still cannot escape from the fact that God, by His election, absolutely predestined their NON-Repentance unto Damnation. This is what you are desperately trying to avoid... and you can't.

791 posted on 01/23/2002 7:55:12 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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