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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
But if you do not preach, you have denied him even the opportunity to accept or reject the Gospel. Thus, "his blood be on thy hands", for though he would never have taken the offered opportunity (being unregenerate), *you* did not even offer him the opportunity at all, as was your duty!! Hope that is clearer.

But what good does it do a reprobate to accept the Gospel if preached to him if God has predestined him to damnation? Perhaps you can explain how a person "accepts" the Gospel in any meaningful way but is still predestined to damnation. Does preaching to the Reprobate glorify God or serve another purpose?

I can't find your scripture quote anywhere in the KJV. Can you cite it?

I speak not of some class of persons who would be saved if only they were preached the Gospel, but rather of Preachers who "share their guilt" in an ethical sense, for never having bothered to offer them the opportunity for salvation in the first place. They would reject, sure, but the Preacher would at least have done his duty.

Well, I am relieved that salvation is never a "work". I thought I must be seeing things! However, how can a preacher, i.e. any believer, share the "guilt" of someone not predestined to salvation? If they were not predestined, how can there be guilt for failing to preach to them?

I am not saying Christians do not have an obligation to Preach. You know how much I've liked your other posts on the subject. But this is a new element in your argument on the subject. I always accepted it in the sense that we are commanded to Preach To Obey. Not in hope of reward or fear of punishment. But because the Word clearly instructs it. And so to Obey the Word, we Preach the Word. I think that is a fair summary of what you've written many times.

Why should God blame His preachers for failing to preach to those who will never hear the Word anyway? How precisely can the blood of the predestined Reprobate be upon their hands? Is God blaming His followers for failing to do that which He Himself will not do and never intended to do? Is the value of Preaching to the Reprobate in that it restrains the evil that arises from man's depravity? I have read arguments on this last one before but haven't seen them supported scripturally yet.

I think this new element actually weakens your previous writings on the topic. I wish I could formulate it better. Do you have some scripture to explicitly support this new argument?
765 posted on 01/23/2002 4:45:17 PM PST by George W. Bush
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To: George W. Bush
Hey GW..My two cents on this..

Didn't Jesus know that Israel would refuse the gospel? Yet in Matthew 10 we read
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

I think the perfect example was Noah

2 Peter 2
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
Noah preached to no effect but he was rewarded for his obedience.

I believe we have an obligation to share the Good News with everyone. The result is not in our hands. I had not considered it as OP put it ..but that seems correct..The order of God was that the gospel should be preached to everyone..and there will be a cost if we are not obedient in that

766 posted on 01/23/2002 5:13:03 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: George W. Bush
But what good does it do a reprobate to accept the Gospel if preached to him if God has predestined him to damnation? Perhaps you can explain how a person "accepts" the Gospel in any meaningful way but is still predestined to damnation. Does preaching to the Reprobate glorify God or serve another purpose?

The Reprobate won't accept the Gospel (for his spirit hates it), but he has been presented that opportunity (which is the Preacher's duty).

I suppose I could say that some will "accept" the Gospel in the sense of a non-saving assensus ("Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?") But that is not really my point. I say that the Reprobate will never accept the Gospel, but that it is still the preacher's duty to present it, that the reprobate may "bring upon themselves the righteous destruction to which they are doomed" (Calvin).

However, how can a preacher, i.e. any believer, share the "guilt" of someone not predestined to salvation? If they were not predestined, how can there be guilt for failing to preach to them?

Some are predestined by God's permission to commit murder, but the blood of their victims is, in a sense, upon the hands of those who failed to try and stop the murder, if they had the opportunity to try and stop it.

Certainly, God does not necessarily promise that efforts to defend the innocent from murder will necessarily be successful, but he has ordained that it is our righteous duty to attempt the defense (and He will ordain/already has ordained the results).

Likewise, even though the Reprobate may be predestined to eternally murder himself, confirming the natural spiritual death into which he is born, nonetheless, it is a righteous duty to attempt to offer him the Gospel.

I submit that what is true of lesser charities, is true of the presentation of the Gospel.

And, failure to perform this righteous duty is a moral shame upon the Preacher who fails to do it, even though the Reprobate will be condemned either way (by sins of "criminal negligence" in the absence of the Gospel, or by rejection of the Gospel when offered).

768 posted on 01/23/2002 5:35:27 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: George W. Bush
I can't find your scripture quote anywhere in the KJV. Can you cite it?

These guys never cite the verse, they do not want you to check what it says.

The verse is Mat.11:21-24

805 posted on 01/23/2002 8:15:01 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
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