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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian;fortheDeclaration;the_doc;Jerry_M;CCWoody;RnMomof7

Before any of them had ever been born, God looked through history at the choice they would freely make if He did perform miracles ("Repent"), and the choice they would freely make if He did not perform miracles ("Not Repent"), and He chose that he would not perform miracles, which pre-determined that they would choose to not Repent, just as He foreknew. Thus, from before Time, God pre-determined their choice to Not Repent and predestined them to Damnation

I underserstand your arguement OP but you are adding to the scripture facts not in evidence. The only problem with the above statement is that the bible does not say tyre and sidon did not repent and were damned. There ultimate fate is not disclosed in Mt. You are assuming because Jesus did not perform miracles there they are damned.

What Jesus is saying if i may paraphrase: "Those that witness miricles and still do not believe are idiots deserving of Hell. I mean if I performed these miricles in Sodom, as wicked as they were, they would have believed and repents but you jews are being idiots."

God could come down right now and say "Hello OP I am God" and it would be easy for you to believe and accept salvation. It is harder to not witness miracles and still believe. Just because God does not hit me over the head on day and shout HERE I AM BELIEVE does not mean I am damned to hell.

P.S. You can lose the arrogance in your posts. It does not help your arguements. Also, I believe there is something in the New Testemant about being humble

pps. yes, I believe that even the people of sodom could receive God's mercy. Genesis says that God destroy sodom and killed most of the people, it does not (as you believe) say God through them in Hell to burn for ever.

758 posted on 01/23/2002 3:51:44 PM PST by Joyful Wisdom
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To: Joyful Wisdom;fortheDeclaration;the_doc;Jerry_M;CCWoody;RnMomof7; George W. Bush
I underserstand your arguement OP but you are adding to the scripture facts not in evidence. The only problem with the above statement is that the bible does not say tyre and sidon did not repent and were damned. There ultimate fate is not disclosed in Mt. You are assuming because Jesus did not perform miracles there they are damned. What Jesus is saying if i may paraphrase: "Those that witness miricles and still do not believe are idiots deserving of Hell. I mean if I performed these miricles in Sodom, as wicked as they were, they would have believed and repents but you jews are being idiots." God could come down right now and say "Hello OP I am God" and it would be easy for you to believe and accept salvation. It is harder to not witness miracles and still believe. Just because God does not hit me over the head on day and shout HERE I AM BELIEVE does not mean I am damned to hell. P.S. You can lose the arrogance in your posts. It does not help your arguements. Also, I believe there is something in the New Testemant about being humble pps. yes, I believe that even the people of sodom could receive God's mercy. Genesis says that God destroy sodom and killed most of the people, it does not (as you believe) say God through them in Hell to burn for ever.

You actually believe that Sodom is enjoying Salvation.
Amazing what people will say to pervert the words of Jesus in Matthew 11.

Your position is denied. Sodom is burning in Hell right now, and will never, ever get out.

Ergo, God knew what Election of His would pre-destine Sodom to everlasting Salvation (performance of miracles equal to those He performed in Capernaum, such that they would Repent); and God knew what Election of His would pre-destine Sodom to everlasting Salvation (NON-performance of miracles equal to those He performed in Capernaum, such that they would NOT Repent); And, having both options available to the power of His Omnipotence, God deliberately elected to pre-destine Sodom into the damnation of everlasting hell-fire, not to save it.

Case closed. These are Jesus' words in Matthew 11; now believe them, or hate them.

760 posted on 01/23/2002 4:05:22 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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