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To: fortheDeclaration, Jerry_M
Yes, God chose not to perform those miracles, but that does not mean they did not have enough evidence to repent.

Doesn't matter. God knew that they would Repent if He performed the miracles, and that they would Not Repent if He did not perform the miracles. Knowing, therefore, that He enjoyed total Power to determinate whether they would Repent or Not Repent, He decreed to Not Perform the miracles so that the Tyrians and Sidonians would Not Repent, and be Damned, which was His purpose for them.

Your admission grants me the entirety of the Debate. God has pre-determined all the individual choices of Men.

Now, since you believe in Unconditional election, how could Christ be saying that those cities would have repented?

Had God seen fit to Elect them to Salvation, He would have performed the miracles so that they would Repent.

But He decided instead that He was going to Reprobate them, and so He did Not Perform the miracles, so that they would Not Repent, and be Damned, which was God's purpose.

Wouldn't God have to regenerate them first?

Sure. And had God elected from before Time to bring them to Repentance, He would have performed the miracles as Means of Grace unto the Tyrians, just as Paul on the Road to Damascus, which He knew would pre-determine the Tyrians to decide to Repent.

But God had decreed instead from before Time that He was going to Damn the Tyrians, so He chose to Not Perform the miracles, which He foreknew would pre-determine the Tyrians to decide to Not Repent, and be Damned, which was God's purpose.

How could they repent if it was decreed that they not do so?

Had God decreed that they should Repent, He would have performed the miracles which He foreknew would determine their decisions unto Repentance.
But God had decreed that they should Not Repent, and so He did Not Perform the miracles, in order to pre-destine their decisions to Non-Repentance.

Those verses are far more damaging to your view of Total Depravity then it is to mine that God wants all to repent. Under Total Depravity, it should not be possible for them to repent with more or less evidence since it is not dependent on them, but on the One who Predestinated them-right?

No, under Total Depravity, the display of miracles can be a Means of Grace by which God regenerates the inner spirit (Paul on the road to Damascus proves this). It is up to God how His Power "works" upon a man.

But God did not decree from before Time that the Tyrians and Sidonians should be Saved, he decreed before Time that they should be Damned. So, in keeping with His Predestinating Decree, he did not perform the miracles which would have been a means of Penitent Grace to them, and so pre-determined that their choice would be to Not Repent, and be Damned, which was God's purpose.

Now, I am baffled? How do you get the clear words saying that if they had seen the miracles of Christ they would have repented to mean Predestination?

Because who controls miracles?

God.

If it served God's purpose for them to believe and be Saved, He foreknew with certainty that the performance of miracles would be a Means of Grace to bring about their Repentance. Jesus specifically said that, had they seen these miracles (which God alone decides whether He will perform, or not), that they would have Repented!!

But it did not serve God's purpose for the Tyrians to believe and be Saved. God's purpose was for them to be Damned. Knowing that His non-performance of miracles in these cities would most certainly result in their non-repentance, He decreed not to perform these miracles, in order to pre-determine that their choice would be to Not Repent, and be Damned, which was God's purpose.

God knew exactly how much Grace would be required to save Tyre. It was not beyond His power; it required no more a display of miraculous Grace than He did display in stiff-necked Chorazin!!

But God's purpose from before Time was not to save Tyre, but to Damn them. Knowing that His decision to perform, or not perform, certain miracles would pre-determine whether Tyre would Repent, or Not Repent, He decreed NOT to perform these miracles, SO THAT they would NOT Repent, and be Damned, which was His purpose for them.

'Nuff said.

708 posted on 01/23/2002 1:21:08 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian;fortheDeclaration;Jerry_M

He enjoyed total Power to determinate whether they would Repent or Not Repent, He decreed to Not Perform the miracles so that the Tyrians and Sidonians would Not Repent, and be Damned, which was His purpose for them.

Excuse me for interupting, But on this minor point I feel I need to say something

Jesus does not say the Tyrians and Sidonians are damned. He said that "it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you."Which clearly implies some sort of salvation for tyrians and sidonians

Sorry for the interuption you may now continue with not listening to each other :)

717 posted on 01/23/2002 1:52:04 PM PST by Joyful Wisdom
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