[Jerry_M]

"You cann't have joy without happiness? But you can have happiness without joy-can't you?"

I think that you have it backwards. It is quite possible to experience the joy of Christ in the most unhappy of circumstances. Joy is not dependent upon happiness. Joy often breaks through the gloom and despair of the most miserable of circumstances.

[fortheDeclaration]

I think that you have it backwards. It is quite possible to experience the joy of Christ in the most unhappy of circumstances. Joy is not dependent upon happiness. Joy often breaks through the gloom and despair of the most miserable of circumstances.

In the most unhappy of circumstances does not mean you are unhappy!(there is Doc's determinism again)

To have Joy you have to have happiness first. Joy breaks out as a resultof happiness