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To: xzins
Your #1739: Some of my mormon friends said that the entire basin is so enamoured of their ties to brigham young that they keep perpetuating those ties by continuous inter-marriage.

I draw a blank. I have never heard of that. Why would people need to be descended from Brigham Young, or anyone else, through both parents?

You continue: Not to mention just the sheer silliness of god checking out some yankee seer in new york and leading him to these .golden plates. (Doesn't pass the common sense test.....) I keep asking the mormons I meet if they'd show me the golden plates. Most of them say I'm not able to see them; and even if I could, that I couldn't translate them. WM, show me the plates. OK?

(I had a neighbor once who wanted to see them.)

Moroni took them back, X, you will have to ask him. Chain of custody thing, and people kept trying to steal them to melt them down for the gold. Twelve people (including Joseph Smith) did see them, and solemnly bore record of it. (See the The Testimony of Three Witnesses and the The Testimony of Eight Witnesses in the introduction to the Book of Mormon.) Two Egyptologists in New York also saw characters copied from the plates and Joseph Smith's translation of those characters.

Another reason Moroni took them back was that two-thirds of the plates are sealed, a record to be translated and made public later, in the Lord's own due time, but if we ever expect to see it, we need to not so summarily reject what we already have been given.

Isaiah 29:11, 13-14
11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

That is enough witnesses, X, without seeking to add yourself to the list. The Lord wants us to learn to live by faith. Not blind faith, but intelligent faith.

James 1:3
3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

All of the other "explanations" for the coming forth of the Book of Mormon have been shown to be false, and the only one left, considering the difficulty of a 24-year-old small-town farmer with little formal education coming up with such a book, is that Joseph Smith, Jr., translated an ancient prophetic record by the gift and power of God. Study it and pray about it. Ask of God if it really is Another Testament of Jesus Christ. That is only common sense.

1,752 posted on 02/04/2002 10:05:44 PM PST by White Mountain
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To: White Mountain; rnmomof7, ccwoody, old professor, jerry m
... took them back

This guy who took them; he's a friend of joe smith, right. I'm interested in where he took them to. Are they in the temple in salt lake? Why don't the leaders out there just make them public so everyone can see them and some learned bible scholars can look at them?

Also, why do you think God went to such extremes in prophecy to clearly point out Jesus, his birthplace, his ministry, his message....etc? Yet with joe smith there wasn't a peep. I mean John the Baptist's coming was pretty well spelled out. The 2 witnesses in Revelation have their ministry pretty well spelled out. But here's joe smith, yankee, and not a peep. Show me something that prophesies his coming, his ministry, his birthplace, etc....IN THE REAL BIBLE.

Also, you totally sidestepped the issue of archeological evidence for great, advanced civilizations and battles between them in this new world. Nothing. There's nothing.

Now, here's a question for you. Is the Unification Church of the Reverend Sun Myung Moon a cult? AND, if you think they are, WHAT MAKES THEM SO? And if you don't think they are, then why haven't you joined up?

1,754 posted on 02/05/2002 2:52:26 AM PST by xzins
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