If you really want me to answer this stuff, you might want to give me some reliable basis to believe that these are honest questions. When both of you run my faith down in the process of asking the questions, I know better. - White Mountain
You, sir are nothing more than a wolf under the guise of sheep. You have no cause to complain about "running down people's faith"; for you spend all your time seeking to run down the Doctrines of Grace.
For example, your #196, wherein among other things you bring up the false Adam-God Theory, something you like to think President Young taught, but which he didn't.
You won't be able to back that up from LDS Scripture, so don't bring it up unless you think you can.
384 posted on 1/20/02 7:10 PM Pacific by White Mountain
This is the heading that appeared in Millennial Star vol. 15, November 16, 1853 and Journal of Discourses 1:46
ADAM, Our Father and Our GOD
Page 50:
When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archange, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken - He is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom we have to do.... When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost.
June 18, 1873, The Desert News (p. 308, col. 4):
How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them and which God revealed to me--namely that Adam is our Father and our God…. Our Father Adam helped to make this earth, it was created expressly for him…. He brought one of his wives with him, and she was called Eve.
Now, the question I have, since you have already conceded to me that Brigham Young is a prophet and apostle of the Latter Day Saints, why have you been expressly denying this to all of us on FR? Perhaps it is because you know that you can never openly admit to this and still maintain your fraudulent claim to be a Christian. Perhaps it is because you really don't know that this blasphemy is taught in your church. In any event, I have revealed it for all. Furthermore, it is still in your books:
D&C 27: 11 And also with Michael, or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days;
D&C 138: 38 Among the great and mighty ones who were assembled in this vast congregation of the righteous were Father Adam, the Ancient of Days and father of all,
The name Adam is given to the first man of the human family on this earth as cited in the account of the creation in the books of Genesis, Moses, and Abraham, and in many instances in the New Testament, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants. From these scriptures we learn that Adam is the father and patriarch of the human race on the earth. The aggregate of the scriptures certifies that his transgression in the garden of Eden, although designated as a "fall," was necessary to the advancement and spiritual progress of humanity on this earth, and Adam rightly should be honored, not denigrated. Adam is the Ancient of Days and is also known as Michael. He is the archangel and will come again to the earth in power and glory as the patriarch of the human family, preparatory to the second coming of Jesus Christ (Dan. 7: 9-14; D&C 116; HC 3: 385-387; HC 4: 207-8).
The prophetic visions present a succession of world-monarchies, the last of which will severely persecute the saints, but will be brought to an end by the judgment of God. Ch. 7, under the symbolism of beasts, shows how, at the end, the world-kingdoms give place to the kingdom of God. This chapter also contains the vision of "One like unto a Son of Man" standing before the Ancient of Days to receive power and glory. The "Son of Man" is Jesus Christ. Latter-day revelation identifies the Ancient of Days as Adam (D&C 116), who is also known as Michael (D&C 128: 21; cf. Dan. 10: 13, 21; Dan. 12: 1). A testimony of mankind’s resurrection is given in ch. 12.
Mentioned in Dan. 10: 13, 21; Dan. 12: 1; Jude 1: 9; Rev. 12: 7. He is called the Archangel. Latter-day revelation informs us that Michael is Adam, the Ancient of Days (Dan. 7), a prince, and the patriarch of the human family (D&C 27: 11; D&C 107: 53-56; D&C 128: 21).
www.lds.org
In the summer of 2000, I ran into the Predestination threads, starting with Thread 3. What I saw there was disturbing enough, but when I went back and read Thread 2, I was appalled. There was doc demonizing GWB and acting pretty demonic himself. He has a very controlling and extremely negative manner.
Last summer he set his sights on RnMomof7, treating her so horribly that he was briefly banned as a warning, but he is back as aggressive as ever, and now claims he won her over, for she is now a "true Christian" when she was the polar opposite before, according to him. She is now an aggressive attacker herself, as the RCs and I can attest. She has been converted to something, but it is not Christianity.
doc wasn't trying to get her to fulfill any neglected Biblical requirement. He was just insisting that she accept him as her spiritual mentor, and that wins the accolade of "true Christian" (saved, regenerate) from him, where before she was supposedly unregenerate, a case of spurious conversion, and under demonic control.
You witnessed that whole process, even joining in yourself on doc's side of it. You support this unChristian behavior with your own attacks and aggression, and when you guys have nothing else to say, you attack my faith, offering a bogus justification as you have above.
And here we have OPie, copying and pasting his Chorazin/Bethsaida boilerplate over and over and over for every unwary poster who happens by, insisting that his logic is flawless and compelling and must be agreed to.
As I speak up about what is going on and the doctrine that is used to justify this awful behavior and control the thinking of the unwary, I am supposedly "spending all [my] time seeking to run down the Doctrines of Grace", a typical accusation from you.
You guys are all proselyting in great earnest, accusing others of being the wolves in sheep's clothing, accusing them of proselyting. It is you guys who are the wolves, as I have just documented, and you misuse Calvinism to justify your behavior. A good understanding of Calvinism, as presented here, is valuable insight into your behavior.
You all think you get to "discern" spurious conversion in every new poster, and thus you justify yourselves in relentless attack against the supposedly demonically-controlled reprobate. You guys bear false witness every time you do this. It is sinful, and you will one day be called to account. Aggressive attackers are not humble followers of Christ, and are not headed for heaven (Matthew 18:3-4).
So far I haven't been willing to sit idly by and let you ensnare unsuspecting posters. You will continue to accuse. You are a most diligent aggressive accuser, with accusations in nearly every post, and you give every evidence of continuing to do so here at FR until JimRob correctly identifies your abusive behavior and bans you and the wolfpack you run with, hopefully for much more than a week.
If you would like to correct any misimpressions, please do, but if you are just going to attack again, save it.