[Conservative til I die]

I dunno, you think that going from Latin to the vernacular, or Vatican II has anything to do with this???? Or could it be the pull of secularism and self-centered materialism that is causing it?

Kind of like Ronald Reagan said about his affiliation with the Democratic Party (and I've said about blacks' relationship with the Republican Party), "The Catholic Church didn't leave them, they left the Catholic Church."

[traditionalist]

Moving from Latin to the Vernacular is only 0.0001% of the liturgical changes invovled. A liturgy that gradually developed over 1000 years was completely scrapped for a completely new liturgy one, concocted by a committee in 1969. Even if you just compare vernacular translations, there's a world of difference between the old mass and the new.

You are also right that changes in the mass are only part of the problem.