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THE USA PATRIOT ACT AND THE TWILIGHT OF THE REPUBLIC (Pravda)
Pravda.ru ^ | 1/14/02 | Al Martin (USN, Lt. Cmdr. RET)

Posted on 01/15/2002 12:42:47 PM PST by Askel5

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To: Askel5
Al Martin - RAW!
21 posted on 01/15/2002 1:16:56 PM PST by Senator Pardek
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To: Askel5
We have .pl TV news (in real time) here.
Guess where was comrade Miller right before his very important (last week, weekend) DC visit?
More
22 posted on 01/15/2002 1:35:04 PM PST by CommiesOut
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To: Askel5
"If the government states that the alleged commission of a crime should prove injurious to State Security, then the citizen cannot invoke Fifth Amendment privilege to remain mute. He can be compelled by “whatever means necessary,” (Ashcroft’s own words) to divulge what he may know. "

The first lie I found in the article.

23 posted on 01/15/2002 1:46:34 PM PST by mrsmith
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To: Askel5
The rest of it is too incoherent to figure out when he's lying or what he's lying about.
He mixes the PATRIOT Act and the Tribunals up, at least I think he does.

This dishonest rant does a great disservice to American citizens who care about the Constitutionality and consequences of our laws.

24 posted on 01/15/2002 1:54:33 PM PST by mrsmith
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To: Askel5
OK, OK. So we didn't make it out of the wilderness alive. What are you crabbing about? There's still a lot of fun to be had. I did a great tap dance routine with splits and everything to "She's a Grand Old Flag."

Gerontion

Thou hast nor youth nor age
But as it were an after dinner sleep
Dreaming of both.

Here I am, an old man in a dry month,
Being read to by a boy, waiting for rain.
I was neither at the hot gates
Nor fought in the warm rain
Nor knee deep in the salt marsh, heaving a cutlass,
Bitten by flies, fought.
My house is a decayed house,
And the jew squats on the window sill, the owner,
Spawned in some estaminet of Antwerp,
Blistered in Brussels, patched and peeled in London.
The goat coughs at night in the field overhead;
Rocks, moss, stonecrop, iron, merds.
The woman keeps the kitchen, makes tea,
Sneezes at evening, poking the peevish gutter.

I an old man,
A dull head among windy spaces.

Signs are taken for wonders. "We would see a sign":
The word within a word, unable to speak a word,
Swaddled with darkness. In the juvescence of the year
Came Christ the tiger

In depraved May, dogwood and chestnut, flowering Judas,
To be eaten, to be divided, to be drunk
Among whispers; by Mr. Silvero
With caressing hands, at Limoges
Who walked all night in the next room;
By Hakagawa, bowing among the Titians;
By Madame de Tornquist, in the dark room
Shifting the candles; Fraulein von Kulp
Who turned in the hall, one hand on the door. Vacant shuttles
Weave the wind. I have no ghosts,
An old man in a draughty house
Under a windy knob.

After such knowledge, what forgiveness? Think now
History has many cunning passages, contrived corridors
And issues, deceives with whispering ambitions,
Guides us by vanities. Think now
She gives when our attention is distracted
And what she gives, gives with such supple confusions
That the giving famishes the craving. Gives too late
What's not believed in, or if still believed,
In memory only, reconsidered passion. Gives too soon
Into weak hands, what's thought can be dispensed with
Till the refusal propagates a fear. Think
Neither fear nor courage saves us. Unnatural vices
Are fathered by our heroism. Virtues
Are forced upon us by our impudent crimes.
These tears are shaken from the wrath-bearing tree.

The tiger springs in the new year. Us he devours. Think at last
We have not reached conclusion, when I
Stiffen in a rented house. Think at last
I have not made this show purposelessly
And it is not by any concitation
Of the backward devils.
I would meet you upon this honestly.
I that was near your heart was removed therefrom
To lose beauty in terror, terror in inquisition.
I have lost my passion: why should I need to keep it
Since what is kept must be adulterated?
I have lost my sight, smell, hearing, taste and touch:
How should I use it for your closer contact?

These with a thousand small deliberations
Protract the profit of their chilled delirium,
Excite the membrane, when the sense has cooled,
With pungent sauces, multiply variety
In a wilderness of mirrors. What will the spider do,
Suspend its operations, will the weevil
Delay? De Bailhache, Fresca, Mrs. Cammel, whirled
Beyond the circuit of the shuddering Bear
In fractured atoms. Gull against the wind, in the windy straits
Of Belle Isle, or running on the Horn,
White feathers in the snow, the Gulf claims,
And an old man driven by the Trades
To a sleepy corner.

Tenants of the house,
Thoughts of a dry brain in a dry season.

....T.S. Elliot

(I think Aztec-ism is the logical move now. I really do. Imagine the tap routine a person could work up around an offering to Huitzilopochtli. Tapping like mad for a while, you reach in and pluck out the heart and then do the splits.......)

25 posted on 01/15/2002 1:54:58 PM PST by LaBelleDameSansMerci
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To: Askel5
H.R.3162 PATRIOT ACT{ YOUR NEW- POLICESTATE- LOOK FOR YOUR SELF
26 posted on 01/15/2002 1:56:44 PM PST by expose
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To: Senator Pardek
Oh please ... you think for a MOMENT pravda's going to be publishing anyone lacking the bona fides necessary for immediate dismissal as "hateful" or "wack-O"?
27 posted on 01/15/2002 2:13:47 PM PST by Askel5
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
I think Aztec-ism is the logical move now.

Sorry ... close, but no cigar.

Iroquois is the way to go.

(Combines some occultish screaming effects with a Constitution. Can't be beat. Plus, you work up a good sweat in the longhouse. Very healthful. =)

28 posted on 01/15/2002 2:16:59 PM PST by Askel5
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To: LaBelleDameSansMerci
(More from last year's World State, er, State of the World confab as hosted by old Gorby later ... =)
29 posted on 01/15/2002 2:17:54 PM PST by Askel5
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To: Askel5
The USA PATRIOT Act is neither American nor is it patriotic. It is, however, a sign that the United States has out-sovieted the former Soviet Union.

The American people have allowed it to happen.

Yep and yep.

30 posted on 01/15/2002 2:19:39 PM PST by Jefferson Adams
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To: Askel5
“State Security” or SS for short sounds familiar and creepy.
31 posted on 01/15/2002 2:51:15 PM PST by malarski
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To: malarski
The Aim: Collectivised Security

As for your "SS", it's true The Message They're Sending is the Same Thing

Even if it takes our Useful Idiots a little more time to "get it" and enforce it in their "kindler gentler" fascion:



But I raised it in the context, and I don't want to delay all of this, but I raised it in the context -- I came back from a conference on terrorism back in 1980. I was over in, not Berlin, I was in Bonn, and I went to a conference on terrorism and I spoke there, Henry Kissinger was there, Helmut Schmidt was there, and as I came out of the hotel I saw the hotel was surrounded by APCs, armored personnel carriers. And all the soldiers or policemen had automatic weapons.

I looked at that and I said, I wonder, would any American city allow VIPs to be protected by virtual tanks in the street? And it had been just after a guy named Schleier, a banker, had been assassinated, stuffed in his trunk of a Mercedes car, so there was real tension over there, and there was some real protection underway. I said no, it will never happen in the United States.

Then I said well wait a minute. What happens if the terrorists come to the United States and the bombs start going off, the killing starts here?

Would we as the American people, say protect our liberties or protect our lives? We've never had to have that debate at this point.

And so when you have an Oklahoma City bombing that's taken place, and you have others who may not be domestic but international, what will be the reaction of the American people?

Will they say the government's responsibility is to protect us, and we say absolutely, but how do we do that?

Do we do it through the local police? The National Guard? The Guard and Reserve? Or do we call upon the military in extremists to provide protection and to help with what they call consequence management?

DefenseLink -- Cohen Breakfast Meeting with Reporters in Washington, D.C. (1/11/2001)




32 posted on 01/15/2002 2:57:56 PM PST by Askel5
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To: Askel5
Hmmm, someone else who, like me, considers it a GESTAPO Law!
33 posted on 01/15/2002 6:11:46 PM PST by poet
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To: Askel5,Free the USA, NewAmsterdam, Black Jade,Carry_Okie,AGAviator,jmp702,jjbrouwer,malarski, As
Crackdown on terror takes its toll on civil liberties (FT.com)
34 posted on 01/15/2002 8:01:32 PM PST by CommiesOut
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To: cdwright; valis
thanks but pravda can stuff its opinion into its schleboyska.

Well, as you can see ... we tracked down the Jefferson cite and there is some question as to whether the author (an American, it seems) has mixed in tribunals with the letter of the so-called PATRIOT act.

Everyone -- even commies -- are entitled to their opinion. I agree with valis that Free Republic continues to be a most excellent venue in which to weigh any opinion against the facts.

If your opinion on or read of the PATRIOT act is substantially different than this writer's, cdwright, you might tell us why.

39 posted on 01/15/2002 8:28:03 PM PST by Askel5
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To: Askel5
It is just so very refreshing to read Truth!

People are like animals they have a party group mentality.

We have used Lady Liberty as a Whore and allow the corruption by those we elected because we voted for them, we let them get away with anything as ours could do no wrong.

What pray tell is to cheer about with this administration?

BUMP

40 posted on 01/15/2002 8:29:52 PM PST by horsewhispersc
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